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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I have an 82 5mge, so as some of you all know, this year has the lowest hp output compared to the following years of this engine. I was wondering what ways could I increase the hp on the engine besides putting a free flowing exhaust. I wish to keep the 5mge, and am willing to spend money over time just to get more hp. If there is a way to turbo it and or kits for such thing I would also like to know, the ones I've been trying to find have been from 07 and been discontinued.
 

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Well, what's your budget and power-goals?

Working backwards from those targets will dictate path to take. There's unlimited options, best to write out plan with all steps documented and all parts listed.

This will reduce wasted effort on duplicate parts. For example, if you get 65mm optimal free-flow exhaust for NA engine now, you'll have to throw it away and get 70-75mm exhaust for turbo later (exact size will depend upon boost-levels and power goals).

Some things you cannot do in stages. Turbo must have exhaust, intake, fuel-pump, fuel-lines, FPR, fuel-injectors, intercooler and charge-pipes all purchased and installed at one time. Same with an aftermarket programmable standalone EFI system to control all above.

There are no kits, everything is custom built. Exhaust needs to be custom-built from raw-tubing (at least after turbo). EFI system needs custom harness for this particular combination of parts. Every connector needs to be crimped, soldered and heat-shrink wrapped. It's done this way in pro-motorsports, aerospace and military applications for performance, durability and reliability. Skimping anywhere can easily result in blown up engine with all your money and hard work going down drain in an instant.

I've turbocharged over 15 NA cars over the decades. You can have power, cost or reliability; pick any two, can't have all three.
 

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Best bang for buck/effort is 7M-GTE swap along with matching harness and ECU. Gets you 230bhp with tonnes more torque for least amount of money and time. Plan on rebuilding because they're all pretty old and worn out at this point. But still in better shape than your 5M. I wouldn't try to add power without rebuilding it first.
 

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Danny has a lot of good points. Budget and mechanical skill should be considered first.

If you stick with the 5M, a 7M-GTE manifold will bolt up to the 5M head, and CT26 turbos are dirt cheap these days.

You could go old school with fuel management, and do one of those old Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Risers along with a Walboro fuel pump. I saw a super rad ignition retard rig: Dirt Cheap Ignition Retard for Turbocharged Engines for Less Than $100.

Used intercoolers on Craigslist and ebay all day

Buy pipes and couplers you need from siliconeintakes.com

Exhaust will be a custom thing. I built my own with 3" mild steel mandrel bends, a grinder, and a friend's welder

I think a lot of people these days will just say, "why bother" and swap in an NA 2JZ.
 

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I think a lot of people these days will just say, "why bother" and swap in an NA 2JZ.
There's only one reason anyone would "bother" and that's only a handful of us, mostly us old geezers, who would want to do it "period correct", the way we would have done it back in the day. At this stage of mk2 life cycle, you're not going to make it competitive in any form of motorsport no matter how much money you spend and on the other hand, the values of original mk2s are rising such that you kind of have to think twice about making major modifications like engine swapping, especially if you are starting out with a pretty nice survivor example. From here on, these mk2s are more and more going to participate in the collector end of the hobby and at least here in the states, the tradition at car shows is hoods open. The mk2 was born with a 5m and it just "looks right" in the engine bay, plus you get to sound like an expert on 80s tech when you explain to each spectator how all those aftermarket piggyback gizmos function. ;)
 

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Welcome to the forums. Looks like you got some reading to do brother.
My suggestion is to take your time deciding on what to do. Best bang for buck imo is a NA 2J. But the 7m is OG tried and true swap on here. Tons of excellent info on that. A turbo 5/6mgte is really only for the crazy/purist guys who have skills/knowledge/cash to throw at it. Plenty of easier and arguably better swaps out there.
Take your time. Keep us posted. Replace your suspension and bushings first. Take care of any rust issues. Then do the motor swap.
Godspeed man. Post some pics
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, currently upgrading the suspension right now. But I really wouldn't mind doing a turbo, but as some people said it kind of requires skills, skills that I don't really have, but still, sounds like a nice thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, what's your budget and power-goals?

Working backwards from those targets will dictate path to take. There's unlimited options, best to write out plan with all steps documented and all parts listed.

This will reduce wasted effort on duplicate parts. For example, if you get 65mm optimal free-flow exhaust for NA engine now, you'll have to throw it away and get 70-75mm exhaust for turbo later (exact size will depend upon boost-levels and power goals).

Some things you cannot do in stages. Turbo must have exhaust, intake, fuel-pump, fuel-lines, FPR, fuel-injectors, intercooler and charge-pipes all purchased and installed at one time. Same with an aftermarket programmable standalone EFI system to control all above.

There are no kits, everything is custom built. Exhaust needs to be custom-built from raw-tubing (at least after turbo). EFI system needs custom harness for this particular combination of parts. Every connector needs to be crimped, soldered and heat-shrink wrapped. It's done this way in pro-motorsports, aerospace and military applications for performance, durability and reliability. Skimping anywhere can easily result in blown up engine with all your money and hard work going down drain in an instant.

I've turbocharged over 15 NA cars over the decades. You can have power, cost or reliability; pick any two, can't have all three.
I dont mind taking my time to turbo the car and spending some money, but what are the options for getting more power for the na 5m since that's also an option
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Danny has a lot of good points. Budget and mechanical skill should be considered first.

If you stick with the 5M, a 7M-GTE manifold will bolt up to the 5M head, and CT26 turbos are dirt cheap these days.

You could go old school with fuel management, and do one of those old Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Risers along with a Walboro fuel pump. I saw a super rad ignition retard rig: Dirt Cheap Ignition Retard for Turbocharged Engines for Less Than $100.

Used intercoolers on Craigslist and ebay all day

Buy pipes and couplers you need from siliconeintakes.com

Exhaust will be a custom thing. I built my own with 3" mild steel mandrel bends, a grinder, and a friend's welder

I think a lot of people these days will just say, "why bother" and swap in an NA 2JZ.
Nice, those will help in deciding for this or not.
 

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Problem you'll find with staying NA is that you'll net maybe 20hp with the typical bolt on I/H/E mods. The question is after spending a few grand doing those mods is getting 20 hp worth it? Best bang for the buck if you're not power crazy is the 2JZGE mentioned above. You basically have turbo 5M power in one of the most reliable motors Toyota ever made. And sky is the limit if you do want to turbo that motor someday
 
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Another factor is your power goal, and purpose for the car. Are you doing autox or track days? Read the rule book first, good tires and a seat second, then hit the track. I was so surprised how my modification plans changed after just one outing on the track. I thought, I don't need more power, I need a race seat to keep me in place!

Street car with some extra power? Personally I think a 7M manifold and CT-26 based 5M turbo build would be very cool. I built a Megasquirt II for my 7M-GTE powered Corona from the cheapest kit available, probably less that $600 on the engine management. My guess from that turbo and engine combo would net you 200 wheel HP. Sounds like nothing these days, but would probably be super fun and torque-y around town.

Like SilverMK2 says, the 5M is limited. Even if you turbocharge it, you'll be stuck with low boost and small turbo, I'd guess 300hp MAX on that engine before you bend a rod or crack a piston ring land.

Stick NA 5M, and the cost-to-horsepower ratio is going to be really, really awful on these old 2 valve heads. The NA build path is the same for any engine: headwork that includes porting and 3 angle valve job, and big cams. Likely a custom grind. Bottom end you'll need high compression pistons. If those exist for a 5M, I've not seen them. Since you have the engine out and apart, balance the whole thing with a lighter weight crank pulley and flywheel for max revs. Then you'll be leaving power on the table if you don't have some way to fine tune ignition and fuel. Need dyno time to dial in the maps.

All that would cost thousands. And you'll be trading some midrange torque to gain horsepower in the last few thousand RPMs, which will make driving around town less fun. I couldn't guess the power, but maybe 180 peak-y wheel HP? Sure would sound rad though.

Nice, those will help in deciding for this or not.
 

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Yeah, currently upgrading the suspension right now. But I really wouldn't mind doing a turbo, but as some people said it kind of requires skills, skills that I don't really have, but still, sounds like a nice thing.
I dont mind taking my time to turbo the car and spending some money, but what are the options for getting more power for the na 5m since that's also an option
As mentioned you can do:
  • intake-mods: free-flow air-filter, short-ram intake, convert AFM to MAF/MAP load-sensing
  • head-mods: shave head for increased compression, porting & polishing, larger valves with fully-radiused copper-beryllium seats (better than 5 or 7-angle valve jobs), stiffer valve-springs with titanium retainers, cams with adjustable gears
  • exhaust: long-tube 6-1 header, free-flow exhaust with side-exit.
After $2000+, you've got +20-25bhp in 5500-6500rpm range with some loss in low-end. Gonna have to rev piss out of engine all the time to use that extra power. Yes, I've done these mods.

You can learn new skills and subjects easily enough. Enroll in local community-college welding class. This will allow you to accomplish many tasks that are currently impossible or prohibitively expensive to farm out.

I recommend following for background knowledge in turbocharging:

McLaren-Honda Turbo: A Technical Appraisal - Bamsey 1990 Haynes
Maximum Boost - Corky Bell 1987 Bentley
Forced Induction Performance Tuning - A Practical guide - Bell 2003 Haynes

With that background research done, you can develop upgrade plan and shopping list. You can take simplistic approach with piggybacks & FMUs for +25-60% power-bump. However, risks of blowing up engine is high (low power+low-cost = low reliability/durability).

Here's what it takes to double factory Celica ST power +100% to 250bhp (high power+high-cost = high reliability/durability). This is just parts-list, need to add welding, assembly labour costs and hours of dyno-tuning.


And what it takes to quintuple power +400% on 1.8L 7A-FE engine to +500hp at wheels (600bhp at crank!). Core of this build and its power and reliability is LinkECU G4-Storm programmable EFI system:


You can do similar things with 5M-GE to double power. But at very least, you'll want forged hypereutectic pistons and forged 4340 con-rods to prepare for stresses of added power. Con-rods should be designed to use tougher Clevite 77 or ACL race-series rod-bearings. Also best to use 4-valve head to move additional air.

Again, very 1st step on project like this is to establish budget and HP goals. Then path to take becomes much, much more clear. And... you need lump-sum, cannot do it piece-by-piece unless you plan on storing all parts in closet until you've purchased every last item on list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Another factor is your power goal, and purpose for the car. Are you doing autox or track days? Read the rule book first, good tires and a seat second, then hit the track. I was so surprised how my modification plans changed after just one outing on the track. I thought, I don't need more power, I need a race seat to keep me in place!

Street car with some extra power? Personally I think a 7M manifold and CT-26 based 5M turbo build would be very cool. I built a Megasquirt II for my 7M-GTE powered Corona from the cheapest kit available, probably less that $600 on the engine management. My guess from that turbo and engine combo would net you 200 wheel HP. Sounds like nothing these days, but would probably be super fun and torque-y around town.

Like SilverMK2 says, the 5M is limited. Even if you turbocharge it, you'll be stuck with low boost and small turbo, I'd guess 300hp MAX on that engine before you bend a rod or crack a piston ring land.

Stick NA 5M, and the cost-to-horsepower ratio is going to be really, really awful on these old 2 valve heads. The NA build path is the same for any engine: headwork that includes porting and 3 angle valve job, and big cams. Likely a custom grind. Bottom end you'll need high compression pistons. If those exist for a 5M, I've not seen them. Since you have the engine out and apart, balance the whole thing with a lighter weight crank pulley and flywheel for max revs. Then you'll be leaving power on the table if you don't have some way to fine tune ignition and fuel. Need dyno time to dial in the maps.

All that would cost thousands. And you'll be trading some midrange torque to gain horsepower in the last few thousand RPMs, which will make driving around town less fun. I couldn't guess the power, but maybe 180 peak-y wheel HP? Sure would sound rad though.
Yeah, I dont mind getting 300 hp or less, just wanna see if I could get up in the 200s at most. Also, I heard from a smog person in California since I live there, that possibly in 2023 they are rasing the smog year to 82 or 83 to be exempt. Not too sure if that's true or not
 

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(...) in California since I live there, that possibly in 2023 they are rasing the smog year to 82 or 83 to be exempt. Not too sure if that's true or not
I'm also in California and have an 83 from someone's farm...


Currently they've proposed that for vehicles between 76 and 83:

(c) For purposes of subdivision (a), a collector motor vehicle, as defined in Section 259 of the Vehicle Code, is exempt from those portions of the test required by subdivision (f) of Section 44012 if the collector motor vehicle meets all of the following criteria:
(1) Submission of proof that the motor vehicle is insured as a collector motor vehicle, as shall be required by regulation of the bureau.
(2) The motor vehicle is at least 35 model-years old.
(3) The motor vehicle complies with the exhaust emissions standards for that motor vehicle’s class and model-year model year as prescribed by the department, and the motor vehicle passes a functional inspection of the fuel cap and a visual inspection for liquid fuel leaks.

Section 259's definition:

VEHICLE CODE - VEH
DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681]

( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

259.
“Collector motor vehicle” means a motor vehicle owned by a collector, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 5051, and the motor vehicle is used primarily in shows, parades, charitable functions, and historical exhibitions for display, maintenance, and preservation, and is not used primarily for transportation.

My takeaway here is that my '71 Pinto, which is primarily used for transportation, does not qualify unless I lean into Shows and Sundays...
 

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Never going to happen it has come up every once an while and never goes anywhere. They are more than likely to outright ban older cars vs giving you some kind of break.
 

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yeah, CA regulations always gets tighter and more restrictive.

That's main reason I moved to AZ, any mods are allowed as long as it passes sniffer test. So much more sensible than CA's visual inspection and requiring EO exemptions for aftermarket parts!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Another factor is your power goal, and purpose for the car. Are you doing autox or track days? Read the rule book first, good tires and a seat second, then hit the track. I was so surprised how my modification plans changed after just one outing on the track. I thought, I don't need more power, I need a race seat to keep me in place!

Street car with some extra power? Personally I think a 7M manifold and CT-26 based 5M turbo build would be very cool. I built a Megasquirt II for my 7M-GTE powered Corona from the cheapest kit available, probably less that $600 on the engine management. My guess from that turbo and engine combo would net you 200 wheel HP. Sounds like nothing these days, but would probably be super fun and torque-y around town.

Like SilverMK2 says, the 5M is limited. Even if you turbocharge it, you'll be stuck with low boost and small turbo, I'd guess 300hp MAX on that engine before you bend a rod or crack a piston ring land.

Stick NA 5M, and the cost-to-horsepower ratio is going to be really, really awful on these old 2 valve heads. The NA build path is the same for any engine: headwork that includes porting and 3 angle valve job, and big cams. Likely a custom grind. Bottom end you'll need high compression pistons. If those exist for a 5M, I've not seen them. Since you have the engine out and apart, balance the whole thing with a lighter weight crank pulley and flywheel for max revs. Then you'll be leaving power on the table if you don't have some way to fine tune ignition and fuel. Need dyno time to dial in the maps.

All that would cost thousands. And you'll be trading some midrange torque to gain horsepower in the last few thousand RPMs, which will make driving around town less fun. I couldn't guess the power, but maybe 180 peak-y wheel HP? Sure would sound rad though.
So for the intake, should I get the whole 7mgte intake from maf to throttle body as well? Ive been trying to make a list on 7mgte parts I can use, I know I can use the headers as well. And if I just wanted to achieve 240hp do I keep stock injectors, or should I use bigger ones as well?
 

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need bigger injectors, bigger pump, and some way to adjusting fuel-maps.
Use this injector sizing calculator to select max-flow rate based upon power-output:
Looks like you'll need 263cc/min injectors for 240hp.

Biggest question is how you're gonna flow enough air to make 240hp???
No way you're gonna make NA engine flow that much with bolt-on mods.
Can be done, but will requiring boring block and stroking crank to start...

Intake means everything up to intake-valves: all intake plumbing, intake-manifold, KV MAF, 7M ECU, wiring-harness to connect ECU & MAF. Also need 7M-GTE 4v head as well to attach intake.. it only made 220hp with boost... You'll have even less with 2.8l NA 2v engine. Maybe 160-165 with full 65mm exhaust. Unknown variable is state of wear & tear on your 5M engine, might be down -20-30hp from stock already with mileage and age.
 

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So for the intake, should I get the whole 7m intake from maf to throttle body as well? Ive been trying to make a list on 7mgte parts I can use, I know I can use the headers as well. And if I just wanted to achieve 240hp do I keep stock injectors, or should I use bigger ones as well?
7m intake won't work on a 5m. Look at pictures of both of them. You need the 7m exhaust manifold aka turbo manifold and turbo, custom exhaust off the back, and custom intake piping to mate up with your 5m throttle body. Headers would mean NA and you aren't going to make much power without boost on a 5m.

Stop shooting for a number goal, shoot for how you want to drive the car, and how you are capable of building and maintaining it. If your 5m works well, toss some headers and exhaust on it that you enjoy that doesn't piss off the neighbors, toss a smooth intake pipe on there like the cold air kit, don't worry about the numbers, and just enjoy the thing.

If you're dead set on 240hp, honestly engine swap to a more modern platform and let some shop handle the work for you maybe. 1uz v8 if you are ok with auto trans, motor mount kits available. 2jz/1jz if you want turbo i6 and a 5 speed. The questions you are asking in here do not lead me to believe that you are going to have a fun time doing a turbo add on or engine swap, no offense.
 
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