Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner
21 - 34 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
As mentioned, easiest, fastest, cheapest and most reliable is to swap in engine with power-output you want. Engine tech had improved tremendously since early-'80s and you're not gonna be able to out-do Toyota's engineering. 1UZ-FE can be found anywhere for $500 or less and comes in 260-300hp variations. Also save you some weight over 5M and makes car even faster!

Here's one in '85 Celica.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
Yeah without forced induction I don't think it's possible to make 220 with a 5M block and head. Either turbo it or swap it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
need bigger injectors, bigger pump, and some way to adjusting fuel-maps.
Use this injector sizing calculator to select max-flow rate based upon power-output:
Looks like you'll need 263cc/min injectors for 240hp.

Biggest question is how you're gonna flow enough air to make 240hp???
No way you're gonna make NA engine flow that much with bolt-on mods.
Can be done, but will requiring boring block and stroking crank to start...

Intake means everything up to intake-valves: all intake plumbing, intake-manifold, KV MAF, 7M ECU, wiring-harness to connect ECU & MAF. Also need 7M-GTE 4v head as well to attach intake.. it only made 220hp with boost... You'll have even less with 2.8l NA 2v engine. Maybe 160-165 with full 65mm exhaust. Unknown variable is state of wear & tear on your 5M engine, might be down -20-30hp from stock already with mileage and age.
Whoops, looks like I forgot to say it was going to be a 7mgte intake
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Need 4v 7M-GTE head too.
Shoot, that means gotta replace the pistons as well if I have to replace the head
Danny has a lot of good points. Budget and mechanical skill should be considered first.

If you stick with the 5M, a 7M-GTE manifold will bolt up to the 5M head, and CT26 turbos are dirt cheap these days.

You could go old school with fuel management, and do one of those old Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Risers along with a Walboro fuel pump. I saw a super rad ignition retard rig: Dirt Cheap Ignition Retard for Turbocharged Engines for Less Than $100.

Used intercoolers on Craigslist and ebay all day

Buy pipes and couplers you need from siliconeintakes.com

Exhaust will be a custom thing. I built my own with 3" mild steel mandrel bends, a grinder, and a friend's welder

I think a lot of people these days will just say, "why bother" and swap in an NA 2JZ.
Does the 7mgte intake bolt right up? Some other person is saying it does. Just want to confirm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
It does not. No 7M intake will fit a 5M head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
It does not. No 7M intake will fit a 5M head.
I see, okay, so I can get a turbo like the one you suggested, and get a 7m intake, would I get decent power with, atleast in the 210hps? Obviously, itll require a bit more, like injectors and turbo headers, but seeing what you think
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
The 7M intake won't fit a 5M. The exhaust manifold will fit so you can use a CT26 turbo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
No, get 7M-GTE exhaust manifold, which is designed for turbo. Extremely difficult to convert 5M/7M NA exhaust to fit turbo. Compare this to what you have in car now.



You'll also need:
  • 7m-gte CT26 turbo
  • CT26 turbo downpipe
  • 7m-gte entire intake which needs
  • 7m-gte 4v head which will need
  • 7m-gte pistons which needs
  • 7m-gte con-rods
  • 7m-gte harness to use
  • 7m-gte ECU which needs
  • 7m-gte injectors which needs
  • 7m-gte fuel-pump

In end, you'll have everything 7m-gte with just 5m block and crankshaft remaining. So, so much easier and cheaper just to get entire 7M-GTE engine with matching harness and ECU from start.

Again, extracting any more power from 5M is extremely difficult and costly exercise. Something like $4000 for measely 200hp with bolting on everything 7m-gte possible. Whereas 7m-gte swap will get you 230hp for $1k for lots less effort and tonne more reliability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
No, get 7M-GTE exhaust manifold, which is designed for turbo. Extremely difficult to convert 5M/7M NA exhaust to fit turbo. Compare this to what you have in car now.



You'll also need:
  • 7m-gte CT26 turbo
  • CT26 turbo downpipe
  • 7m-gte entire intake which needs
  • 7m-gte 4v head which will need
  • 7m-gte pistons which needs
  • 7m-gte con-rods
  • 7m-gte harness to use
  • 7m-gte ECU which needs
  • 7m-gte injectors which needs
  • 7m-gte fuel-pump

In end, you'll have everything 7m-gte with just 5m block and crankshaft remaining. So, so much easier and cheaper just to get entire 7M-GTE engine with matching harness and ECU from start.

Again, extracting any more power from 5M is extremely difficult and costly exercise. Something like $4000 for measely 200hp with bolting on everything 7m-gte possible. Whereas 7m-gte swap will get you 220hp for $1k for lots less effort and tonne more reliability.
Okay, hm, so with just the exhaust manifold and turbo, plus bigger injectors (and all the other turbo needs) I still won't get much power with the 5m head and internals. Just trying to make sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
Yeah, 4v head easily flows 20-25% more at same boost level. Using MAF instead of AFM frees up 35bhp.

With 2v head, you're looking at 160-180hp max with risk of blowing headgasket every other week due to mis-matched tune (too much fuel in high-end, not enough in mid-range/torque-peak). Will need to add an interceptor piggyback like Apexi S-AFC and lots of dyno-tuning time (or get wideband O2-sensor with datalogging). Bolting on parts is easy 1st 10% of project. It's all remaining 90% of effort in adjustments and tuning that extracts max-power out of package and allows it to last more than a month.

Again, Toyota's done all this engineering work already, no way you can re-do all this and do better job than them. Remember, they've had over 50-yrs racing experience pushing all these engines to limits, including Formulae-1, IMSA GTU/GTO/GTP, and World Rally Championship.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Yeah, 4v head easily flows 20-25% more at same boost level. Using MAF instead of AFM frees up 35bhp. With 2v head, you're looking at 160-180hp max with risk of blowing headgasket every other week due to mis-matched tune (too much fuel in high-end, not enough in mid-range/torque-peak). Will need to add an interceptor piggyback like Apexi S-AFC and lots of dyno-tuning time (or get wideband O2-sensor with datalogging). Bolting on parts is easy 1st 10% of project. It's all remaining 90% of effort in adjustments and tuning that extracts max-power out of package and allows it to last more than a month.

Again, Toyota's done all this engineering work already, no way you can re-do all this and do better job than them. Remember, they've had over 50-yrs racing experience pushing all these engines to limits, including Formulae-1, IMSA GTU/GTO/GTP, and World Rally Championship.
I see, I may have to just switch to a new engine, I kind of wanted to keep the car as original as possible, but if a 7M is a better option, I may have to just go with that. Would I still be able to use the w58 transmission though, if I were to get a 7mgte, I wouldn't want to get more power out of it, ill probably just be fine with stock turbo horsepower
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,838 Posts
Yes the bellhousing and W58 will bolt right up to it.
 
21 - 34 of 34 Posts
Top