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1983 Celica Supra P Type Manual 80k original
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I have used search and found some things but nothing too recent.

I am looking for a spring lowering kit for front and rear...just a small lower, not enough to mess up the camber etc. and I don't really need a fully adjustable coilover kit etc...just slightly shorter springs.

From my searches of this forum, it sounds like Eibach had one for front and rear for the MKII that has now been discontinued and I have searched and searched the web and don't see that available anywhere.

Raptor appears to have rear lowering springs but none for the front (I did send a message to ask them though.) They have all the other things I'd need including shocks and struts, mounts, etc.

Has anyone done this lately? Anyone have a set of the old / discontinued Eibach lowering springs they'd like to part with?

Thanks!
 

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Raptor Racing (George) can get front lowering springs from Dobinson in Australia, but the lead time is 5+ months.
They appear to have 'front lowering springs' and 'extreme front lowering springs' which translate to a 0.75" drop and a 2" drop respectively.

Raptor Racing - Dobinson Front Lowering Springs
As George says in his notes, Dobinson lists these as standard height springs, but in fact appear to drop the ride height about 0.75".

DOBINSON MK2 EXTREME FRONT LOWERING SPRINGS

And note that the prices are in Canadian Dollars which is 26% lower than a US Dollar. The US Price for the parts above is 223.52, although the exchange rate fluctuates daily.

Dobinson cater to the off-road crowd who are the major market for custom springs these days so they do not even list the Mk2 Celica Supra in their catalogs. George has been dealing with them for a long time and ends up buying a pallet of parts so it is worth Dobinson's time to manufacture these on an occasional basis. He has to wait until he has enough serious interest in purchasing enough to make the order and arrange for shipping.

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I suspect that Dobinson would not be interested in manufacturing a single set of coil springs for an individual (I could be wrong though). George has been around a long time and has gone through the pain of importing products from out of country. Others may be able to do it, but I'll wager that they would not want to do it twice!

A long wait, I know, but with the Mk2 being such a low production, old, car, it's the kind of thing that we have to be prepared to put up with.

It may sound like I'm related to George and have a stake in promoting him, but I'm not. I have bought really low production parts from George over the years, and am fully comfortable recommending him to anyone. He has come through with some previously unobtainable parts. He is a Saint in the Mk 2 world!

Dale
 
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1983 Celica Supra P Type Manual 80k original
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Raptor Racing (George) can get front lowering springs from Dobinson in Australia, but the lead time is 5+ months.
They appear to have 'front lowering springs' and 'extreme front lowering springs' which translate to a 0.75" drop and a 2" drop respectively.

Raptor Racing - Dobinson Front Lowering Springs
As George says in his notes, Dobinson lists these as standard height springs, but in fact appear to drop the ride height about 0.75".

DOBINSON MK2 EXTREME FRONT LOWERING SPRINGS

And note that the prices are in Canadian Dollars which is 26% lower than a US Dollar. The US Price for the parts above is 223.52, although the exchange rate fluctuates daily.

Dobinson cater to the off-road crowd who are the major market for custom springs these days so they do not even list the Mk2 Celica Supra in their catalogs. George has been dealing with them for a long time and ends up buying a pallet of parts so it is worth Dobinson's time to manufacture these on an occasional basis. He has to wait until he has enough serious interest in purchasing enough to make the order and arrange for shipping.

I suspect that Dobinson would not be interested in manufacturing a single set of coil springs for an individual (I could be wrong though). George has been around a long time and has gone through the pain of importing products from out of country. Others may be able to do it, but I'll wager that they would not want to do it twice!

A long wait, I know, but with the Mk2 being such a low production, old, car, it's the kind of thing that we have to be prepared to put up with.

It may sound like I'm related to George and have a stake in promoting him, but I'm not. I have bought really low production parts from George over the years, and am fully comfortable recommending him to anyone. He has come through with some previously unobtainable parts. He is a Saint in the Mk 2 world!

Dale
This is AWESOME info and news and I will get these ordered up start the wait! I'm just glad I can get them somewhere. I'm not sure how I missed the front ones on the Raptor site so thank you!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I SEE now, I was not on the full CA site!

Also, one more question...why would one desire the 300lb lowering springs over the standard in the rear?
 

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I have an 83 with Eibach springs (iirc) and upgraded shocks and swaybars, and my wife has an 84 with stock suspension.

The 83 handles dramatically better on the street, but is quite a bit stiffer. I like driving the 83 by myself. When my wife is in the car she grunts over EVERY bump. As they say "happy wife, happy life" so when we go in the same car, we go in her car! The 84 with stock suspension is much more compliant and IS a better car for highway cruising. It is NOT a handling car.

I suspect that the 300 pound spring rate springs will provide sharp street handling on the street. I don't think that the increased spring rate on standard height springs would work, in that the car will probably ride higher than stock in the rear. Bear in mind that most 38-year-old stock cars droop pretty badly because of tired springs. You may find your ass sticking up pretty high, even with the lowered 300 pound springs!

You have to be pretty careful going with increased spring rates. You can shift the handling to understeer or oversteer by mismatching the front and rear spring rates.
I think that 350-400 pounds/inch spring rates on the front would match 300 pound/inch rear springs.

And of course, go with decent shocks , sway bars, and non-rubber bushings when you do the springs. These can make as large a change as the springs themselves.

Be honest about what you want the car for. If you are really a spirited driver, awesome, but if you generally cruise, I would stay with the closer to stock settings. If you live in an area with frost heaved, rough roads, then the softer spring rates may still be the better choice. When you are pulling G's and you hit a rough bit of road, the car can really jump around.

Hopefully someone else with more suspension experience will chime in. I'm old(er) and my preferences now tend toward ride quality rather than ultimate performance.

Finally, I don't know what the stock spring rates are. It would be interesting to find out what they are.

Dale
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have an 83 with Eibach springs (iirc) and upgraded shocks and swaybars, and my wife has an 84 with stock suspension.

The 83 handles dramatically better on the street, but is quite a bit stiffer. I like driving the 83 by myself. When my wife is in the car she grunts over EVERY bump. As they say "happy wife, happy life" so when we go in the same car, we go in her car! The 84 with stock suspension is much more compliant and IS a better car for highway cruising. It is NOT a handling car.

I suspect that the 300 pound spring rate springs will provide sharp street handling on the street. I don't think that the increased spring rate on standard height springs would work, in that the car will probably ride higher than stock in the rear. Bear in mind that most 38-year-old stock cars droop pretty badly because of tired springs. You may find your ass sticking up pretty high, even with the lowered 300 pound springs!

You have to be pretty careful going with increased spring rates. You can shift the handling to understeer or oversteer by mismatching the front and rear spring rates.
I think that 350-400 pounds/inch spring rates on the front would match 300 pound/inch rear springs.

And of course, go with decent shocks , sway bars, and non-rubber bushings when you do the springs. These can make as large a change as the springs themselves.

Be honest about what you want the car for. If you are really a spirited driver, awesome, but if you generally cruise, I would stay with the closer to stock settings. If you live in an area with frost heaved, rough roads, then the softer spring rates may still be the better choice. When you are pulling G's and you hit a rough bit of road, the car can really jump around.

Hopefully someone else with more suspension experience will chime in. I'm old(er) and my preferences now tend toward ride quality rather than ultimate performance.

Finally, I don't know what the stock spring rates are. It would be interesting to find out what they are.

Dale
Thank you! Some great things to think about. I do what it to be a bit sportier and quicker handling. We live by a lot of canyons and although it's really fun as is, I think a little drop and some new components would make a difference (plus I like the look of these with just a slight drop from stock.) I had the same thought abut the 300lb ones...I went through that with a 4Runner and added heavier springs like that because I had a big aftermarket bumper on there etc. And even with that it did raise it a bit. Plus I do not see the 300lb front so as you said, I would not want these mismatched front to rear. So ya I think just the standard ones as well as just the "lowering" vs "extreme lowering" and hopefully they do indeed lower it (I say that because my car with the originals may already be "lowered" just by them being sagged.) But, it's probably a 6 month wait before I get these so I'll order them up and get on the list at least.

Oh and yes I plan to do all mounts, shocks, struts etc. when I do this.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Okay so just to be clear and to get some input from my fellow MKII brethren:

  1. From what I'm seeing on older threads, if I go with the standard 1" (.75") lowering springs I do NOT have to mess with anything else to adjust camber / caster, etc.? If you go with the extreme lowering you would have to address those aspects. Is that right?
    (*I'm thinking so since worn stock springs probably can droop near this much over 40 years anyway.)
  2. And, I would want to purchase both Front and Rear standard lowering springs which is about .75" drop?
    (*That is what I'm after...just to get it down a touch more. I'm not worried about it squatting in the rear since I don't drive it too hard and it still has the 5MGE of course.)

  3. Of course if anyone has done this I'd love to hear and / or see some pics!


And, just as a PSA, here is what George from Raptor says regarding these springs:

Lowering Spring: Generally someone with a stock or close to stock engine that wants to lower their car but doesn’t feel they need extra spring rate in the back.

300lb Lowering Spring: Generally someone with a turbo MK2 trying to keep the squat in check, please note that the ride quality of the 300lb spring is still very very tolerable so if you drive/launch aggressively these will help

Standard Height Spring: Generally someone who does NOT want to deal with negative camber you get when lowering. Or just likes the raked look
 

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Yes, the "Standard Height" springs will drop the car a bit, but no issues with the rear camber. My car dropped a bit more in the front, about an inch compared to about .8" in the rear, and it has a great stance now.

Get them when you can!

Jim
 

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I purchased the springs for my 1983 from TRD and think that they were made by Eibach.

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My springs are the 48100-MA600. I believe that they are supposed to be stock ride height but I found they dropped the car about an inch in the front and perhaps half an inch in the rear.

They don't give too much increased camber. I believe that a 1 inch drop like this is about as far as you want to go before you start to see tire wear.
I don't know, but I would assume that the one inch advertised drop springs may give more like two inches of drop and they may well start to affect tire wear.

And listen to the Doctor... get 'em while you can.

Dale
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks all. Okay, so after combing some threads here is what I'm seeing:

FRONT: Front Lowering Springs - Dobinson MK2 Front Lowering Springs
As the description says, even those these say "lowering springs" they are within the "stock" spec (just on the lower end) for standard height and result in about a .75 drop in the front and as such, there are no camber issues at all.


REAR: Here is where I'm still mulling this over and would love your input:

Option 1: Standard Height: Dobinson MK2 Rear Standard Height Springs
So these appear that they be slightly lower than stock but not much. It seems Raptor went to great lengths to figure out how low they could go in the "stock" range without camber issues. However, these do pretty much guarantee you will have no camber issues. I'm guessing this may give a little more of the raked look when paired with the Front Lowering Springs which in some ways I'm okay with as that's a pretty period correct look on these. But, they say they won't give a full on raked look per their engineering and should match the Front Lowering Springs fairly well.

Option 2: Rear Lowering Springs - Dobinson MK2 Rear Lowering Springs
So these are a bit lower but it seems Raptor really tired to find the limit on these where you could still run these and have minimal camber issues? It would allow a more level look but may affect camber slightly. Since I don't daily drive the car, very slight camber change may not be a huge deal but I don't know. I do think I'd like this look a bit better but the possible camber issues are concerning me.

Finally, so it appears you can lower the front up to an inch without worrying about any camber issues but the rear is more the issue?

*And obviously I left out the "Extreme Lowering" selections because I do not want to weld in a rear camber adjusting kit etc.
 

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Since there is no way to be 100% sure to get the desired hight, when I do a change, I'll go with the BC coilovers, which are not technically coilovers (!) in the back, as they retain the stock 2 piece set-up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Since there is no way to be 100% sure to get the desired hight, when I do a change, I'll go with the BC coilovers, which are not technically coilovers (!) in the back, as they retain the stock 2 piece set-up.
I'm finding a few different options for MKII's and BC's. Which are you looking at?

I get it. You can get all four for $1120 and then customize the height and ride yes?







Cool and ya for all four corners on the Dobsons plus new shocks / struts I'll be up around $800 anyway so getting close to making a good case for the BC's.

What spring rate will you get and, what are the "rear extenders."

I like your thinking here and I'll save all the stock stuff in case I ever want to put it back to stock.
 

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I think their spring rate numbers is 6 and 6. Originally, people were using Cressida coilovers, but the spring rates gave a harsh driveability (same casings etc) . I know 2 guys that have the BR 169, and are very pleased with them. The DS series is a new addition for us. Probably a bit better with improved valving.
The description of Swift spring and extenders is in the FAQ of the site. 33% cost increase for spring is quite important! We don't need extenders, as top of shock are directly in trunk area.
The cost of them is not the only cost involved.
First, because how our uspension is made, you need (suggestion) another set of sprindles for the front, as the coilovers have to be welded to them (previous strut tube cut out). Then the cost of that welding too.
I was able to source a set of front spindles for 100$ in a pick&pull, and count another 150$ for a good welder.
With that, I do have the possibility to swap back my original components if need be.
 
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