[Lee_MA61]

So I've been looking for ways to delay my car from running again.. and a reason to make a post on here. haha Anyways been wanting to do a manual rack conversion for a long long time. It took me awhile to find the Celica man. rack, however I did find a 'new' reman unit. After looking at few threads where people said it wasn't possible. I decided it was time to make it possible. After a few hours at my friends Machine Shop I walked out with this..

I just have to get in the car now and make the steering rod.

will post more once the steering knuckles and tie rods show up.

 

[Mkeller316]

Nice I was actually Just thinking about this the other day. Let us know how it works out

 

[krednjen]

Thumbs up!!!

 

[Keithj]

Sweet. Can wait to hear how it works.

 

[SupraFiend]

Awesome! Can you please do me a favour though, could you measure the displacement of that rack per turn? I currently am running the stock rack depowered, and to be honest it isn't that bad for effort now (now that I got all of the fluid out of it). I think a true manual rack may be a little easier to turn, but its not so bad that I'd be willing to sacrifice my steering ratio any. I have the Celica GTS steering arm mod already of course, but I'm greedy and still want a better ratio. Conventional logic says an auto manufacturer will use a slower steering ratio on the manual steering version of their car to make it easier to turn, so my thought was the RA65 Celica power steering rack would have a faster ratio then the manual one you have there. I have 2 of these, and I finally got around to comparing them to a stock Celica Supra rack. I always wondered why they even bothered having 2 different racks and if the ratio would even be different as the steering arm lengths are dramatically different. I took a bunch of measurements, and lo and behold, the RA65 Celica power steering rack has a different ratio, a different max angle and looks like it will bolt in to the Supra. However, everything was worse. Here's the measurements I got...

___________________USDM MA6x Supra______USDM RA6X Celica GTS
Turns Lock to Lock____3.1__________________3.2
#of mm's displacment
per 1 complete turn ___52mm_______________45mm

In addtion, the 2 racks appeared to have the same length\track width, which one would expect considering the cars basically have the same track width. However, the Celica Supra rack has significantly more extension at full lock, giving greater steering angle. So the Supra rack would be a pretty decent upgrade on a RA65. However, if the manual rack for some reason has a better ratio, I'd be all over that. So if you could please lay down a tape measure, find something to measure from on a tie rod end, perform exactly one rotation of the input steering shaft and then measure the displacement, that would be fantastic. I can convert from inchs to millimeters if need be (1inch = 25.3mm)

 

[taticalguru]

I saw that rock auto has manual racks. will these not work?

 

[CarFreek]

I saw that rock auto has manual racks. will these not work?

Thats a catalog error. Celica Supras only came with power steering. That listing is for a celica(ra65) rack.

 

[taticalguru]

OK thanks.

 

[zappaz]

fenco has manual racks sell around $175 part # RP 2246

 

[CarFreek]

fenco has manual racks sell around $175 part # RP 2246

Thats another catalog error. They list that part# for the Celica, also, which means it will not work.

 

[SupraFiend]

There is no bolt in solution, but if the celica manual rack has a steering ratio at least as good as the supra's it would be worth it to me, others may not care about that but I'm pretty picky.

 

[Sam_Smiles]

... I currently am running the stock rack depowered, and to be honest it isn't that bad for effort now (now that I got all of the fluid out of it).

Really, you can do that? I took the PS pump off and looped the input/output lines with a gravity resorvior. But it's actually hard to turn.. at the end of an autocross section my arms are waaay sore. And, the weighted steering wheel is slow (not slow responsive, just slow to go from lock to lock due to the input force required). If I could turn the wheel faster, with less effort, it would save me a second overall. (I know that's what power steering is for.. LOL!).

So much so I've been sniffing around for an electric power steeing pump, simply to take the load off the engine.

But, if you can remove all the fluid from a powered rack, and cause no damage, do you think the wheel would be lighter?

 

[SupraFiend]

Absolutly. I ran it for a year or so with fluid still in but looped (no resivoir) and it was brutal! Drained it finally and its alot better. No replacement for PS for sure, but its fantastic at speed, the feedback is wicked. Its still too much effort for autox in my book, a little less effort would be fantastic, but way better then it was. One of these days I will yank the rack and completely depower it. Saw a write up on this years ago but havn't gotten around to it. I'm still kinda holding out for a manual rack with a slightly better steering ratio.

Yo OP, measure your racks displacement please And you might want to compare its overall extension range to the stock rack to see if you're going to loose any angle running it like you would with the power celica rack. That one is much less of an issue then the ratio in my book, the driftors would disagree of course.

 

[Sam_Smiles]

*goes to pull the resovour & lines off the PS rack..* Woot! I love front end weight loss. Thanks for tip Fiendy.

Triple bonus score:
- Lighter Steering.
- Weight Reduction.
- Cleaner Engine Bay.

 

[SupraFiend]

Hey Lee, you still around? Would love to hear what the displacement per complete turn of this manual rack is.

 

[Damian]

Just want to mention that a few years ago I made a mod to the PS system that has worked flawlessly since day one. And is especially great on a road course for lapping.

I had considered a manual system but decided I wanted to have my cake and eat it. Can't tell you how well this mod works. Lots of work but more time than anything. Cost is super low and the benefits many.

One downside: NO MORE AC.

Search for the post at: "PS relocated to AC comp. location - - 56k warning"

Damian

 

[James112]

Did anything ever come of this? It would be nice to know if this is a viable option.

 

[Lee_MA61]

Hey Lee, you still around? Would love to hear what the displacement per complete turn of this manual rack is.

Hey sorry to bounce out on this thread. I ended up joining the army back in novemember, so i quickly put the car back together i before i left with the power rack. Now I am in afghanland, getting close to coming home.

The lock to lock is 3.7x turns, however i never got a chance to get the displacement. Its probably not a good twisty track/road rack. But i havent got a chance to play with it to much yet. However with the T3 knuckles and tie rods i could be wrong. I really did it to clean up the engine bay (no power steering anyways) and just to do it.

I promise you this... When i get back home and move all my stuff from Iowa to Kentucky, I'll make this thread rain with info on the swap. The car is will be undergoing its second attempt at being a car when i get back. With about $5000 in parts and counting.

 

[dedlast]

Be safe, Lee. Thanks for the work you do.

Bill

 

[SupraFiend]

Sweet! Yeah, you might be right about that combo. I just installed a set of t3 steering arms, and they are way shorter then the celica GTS arms they were supposed to be modeled after. We get like 2.0 turns lock to lock right now (stock rack)! But the car is not aligned yet, too early for reliable numbers. Definitly a much quicker ratio then the celica arms, and some have complained that those are too quick (though I would like a touch more).