Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

201 - 220 of 222 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
jose, i actually have the car running now with my EDIS system and it runs great. ill reupdate the write up. if you need any help with it send me a PM and ill walk you through it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Engine type: 5m-ge
Ignition style: stock wired for vr on MS
Fuel system: stock pump, late model 7mge low impedence injectors
Periferal sensor types/part numbers: MAP, TPS, Coolant, IAT, wideband
MS hardware type: v3, map daddy, xboard, jumpered for VR
Software: TunerStudio with latest firmware
Other mods that may further affect MS: rabid chimp ported throttle body.


i'm not sure if all that information is completely relevant, but we cant get tuner studio to see RPM at all, i get a/c fluctiation AT the db36 connector from the distributor but for whatever reason cannot get it to read in megasquirt..... anybody else ever run into that problem? tomorrow we are trying a second ms3 unit....

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
I also has a big issue with clean tach signals using the stock VR sensor in the distributor. I don't know if its an isolated issue or not, but with the two different ECU's I had used with my car I seemed to have a consistently worse tach signal when it got colder outside. It was to the point where the car would not start once it fell bellow a certain temperature, never if it was below 32* F. I just couldn't produce any kind of a tach signal at colder temperatures. It took a space heater pointed at the ECU to bring the ECU itself up in temperature (Not the VR sensor) to finally get a tach signal when it was cold outside. I thought there was an issue with my first ECU because of this problem, so I bought another pre-assembled unit only to receive the same problem. Since you decided to put an area code in your location instead of an accurate description of where you are, I wont bother looking up where you actually live, but you may want to consider these issues if you are in cold climate. Again, It may have just been something wrong with my first harness (specific to my setup) or another anomaly at play. If you know someone savy with electronics who can help, I would try to scope your trigger signal at the ecu to see if you are producing a clean and consistent signal or if there is a board/settings issue.

-Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
thanks for the input mike. an update on that is we actually adjusted the sensors inside the distributor to increase voltage, then ran a shielded wire around the front of the engine rather than with everything else for now and we got it to start, idle, run and drive! we spend an hour and a half or so street tuning it tonight and i'm very pleased. the only issue we are having is that at ~1000rpm we loose tach signal. not at idle, not under load, not at 5000, JUST at ~1000. friday when we get back to it we are going to try installing a resistor on signal wire and see if we can maybe clean it up some. here it is at the gas station

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
So I am playing with a stock 85 VR sensor setup this evening with a MS3+X (writeup coming soon). This is on a bench setup.

As with all the other toyota VR sensors I have played with, I found they seem to work best with all 4 VR pots turned fully counter clockwise.

I had trouble getting a clean signal around 250 RPM until I regapped both VR sensors to .005 inch.

I get a strange consistent sync errors around 1250 RPM. So after a quick look I saw this at DIY auto tune's web site (our sensors are nippondenso):

**************************************************************************
Nippondenso signals losing sync at a narrow, low RPM range

This problem happens most often on Nippondenso ignitions and other ignitions where you have a 24 (or 12) tooth crank wheel and a 1 tooth cam wheel. It can happen to Toyota, Mazda, and Honda vehicles. The problem is that the ECU loses sync at a specific RPM range, often in the 1000 to 2500 RPM area. This may be accompanied by the timing jumping.

What is happening is that one active edge of the second trigger is very close to the crankshaft position signal, happening almost at the same time. As the signal can shift when the timing increases, the second trigger goes from happening before the primary trigger to happening after it, and the ECU gets confused about which one of the teeth on the crankshaft position sensor is the #1 tooth. This typically gives Lost Sync Reason 11 and 17 in data logs.

To solve this, you will need to find out exactly which edge you need to trigger on. First change Ignition Input Capture from Rising Edge to Falling Edge, or vice versa. If that does not work, experiment with changing the active edge of the second trigger. Usually, only one of the four possible combinations of Ignition Input Capture and Second Trigger Active Edge settings will rev out cleanly.

Note that you must reset the Tooth #1 angle any time you change either one of these two settings.
**************************************************************************

This actually made sense as I noticed the 2 tooth wheel is not lined up with the 24 tooth wheel. When the 2 tooth wheel is centered on its sensor, the 24 tooth wheel has a tooth half way on it. Currently I am using rising edge on the 24 wheel and falling edge on the 2 tooth wheel. Guess I will be playing with this more and pulling out the oscilloscope tomorrow. I'll make sure to post my findings.

This seems to just prove ditching the 2 tooth wheel and filing off a tooth or two from the 24 might be easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
So I played around with it today. Every time I changed the combination of rising/falling edge for each VR sensor the area of instability changed to a different part of the low RPM band. Seems to be exactly what they are describing. I hooked it up to my oscilloscope and the signal is crystal clear. The only setup I found that had no instability was setting both VR sensors to rising edge. I could only spin the sensor up to 2500 RPM with my drill, so it is possible it moved the instability up higher in the RPM range, but they say the instability generally happened at lower RPMs, so hopefully not. I will not know for sure until I actually put this on a car. I'll try to remember to post back here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
i too am working on getting ms3x to work with the stock 7m vr inputs. I see sync loss around 2200 rpm though. After playing with some digital settings such as noise filtering and "rising edge vs falling" I am going to try to make it a 24-1 and see if it gets a better resolution then maybe a 12-1 if that dosnt work, all the while trying to keep the cam tooth. I have a couple spare cps's so if it dosnt work i can try again. as a last ditch effort ill fab the 36-1 to work on my ati dampener.

I had my last 7mgte running on a 36-1 on the crank and the single tooth on the cam trigger and it ran flawlessly (then was stolen)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
I think it is just an issue with the trigger wheels in the dizzy and cps being such a small diameter. people running the megasquirt on 2j's using the stock crank sensor dont have any issues. It may just be simpler to run a 36-1 crank trigger wheel and call it a day. not hard to fab a vr sensor mount and the universal 36-1 crank triggers bolt right onto the crank pulley. iirc the bolts are m8x60m that i included with the trigger wheels i used to sell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
thats very true, plus if you run off the crank you wouldnt have that "wandering timing" issue people experience due to the gear lash in the cam/distributor and timing belt slack.

anybody know how to extend the shielded wire? can you just solder the new wires, then solder a new shield to the ms shielded wire? it seems to make sense to me but i am unfamiliar with how well the shielding can take solder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Got my 7mgte ms3x running and driving finally using the stock 24+1...there is a rare sync loss under heavy load around 2000 rpm though. For example cruising speed in fourth then just stepping on the throttle there is some sync loss but it revs cleanly at all other times. Just a little trouble shooting now. I had to adjust the trim pots a bit to get mine to work right. Rising edge vs. falling edge didnt benefit me at all. I didnt have to use any resistors inline with the sensor, and I used the shielded wire that came with ms3x.

Ill share a bit of my set up...7mgte ms3x,Toyota 24+1 CPS, VAG 4 wire coils, GM IAT, GM coolant temp, GM TPS, GM IAC, (GM throttle body), 14point7 wideband sensor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
That's good to hear. I'm trying to clean up sync loss code 11 & 17 via the trim pots.

Any more info on your progress on cleaning the signal and not getting an error?

Would it be possible that using the G2 instead of the G1 would also help?

Set up - MS3 + MS3X, 7mgte w/550's and a Holset h1c, and other stuff.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
It's the weirdest thing TerrenceLP, I had a minor oil leak in the CPS so i took it apart to change the bearing and oil seal, and upon reassemply i accidentally tapped both the shaft and the sensor with my brass face hammer. Unfortunately breaking G1 pickup. So i swapped it out with another G1 sensor i had from a spare CPS, rewired it, and regapped it. And now i no longer have sync loss ever.

The only thing i did differently this time is instead of using a peice of paper for gapping the sensors i used a receipt. It is possible that the small oil leak had an effect of my sync as well. Ive heard of some people having success using G2 just need to adjust the trigger angle accordingly.

I still have some timing tuning to do, and after start enrichment/warm up enrichment but no longer have that really annoying hard stumble under load.

Btw what else are you running for your setup there Terrence?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
Well, went to Jose H's house again today. Major progress. We got it running correctly. Turns out that the coil was wired backwards so A and C were reversed. Got that sorted and it started and ran like a normal car again, though a bit rough. It was way too rich. drove it around on auto tune awhile and it clean up considerably but occasionally had some hiccups. We narrowed that down to the Accelerator enrichment settings. We looked up what TPSdot actually meant, and figured out the problem. took only a couple of min to fix the accelerator enrichment issue. Then we drove it again and man, it is running good! It still needs some more driving time with auto tune and also the idle control valve settings to be perfected, but it is drivable as is!

Now, does anyone have their Idle control valve working properly? And if so, can you share your settings please?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,078 Posts
Bump for what William said... Took the car out again yesterday and it is running even better with some more running with the autotune... but the idle gets pretty high 1200-1800 because of the idle control valve... not too sure how to set it in Tuner Studio. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks for William goes out for all the help he did to get my car running again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
I have an 84 celica supra with a 97 aristo 2jzge with a holset hx35 turbo setup using megasquirt. I was driving it the other night and turned around a corner and it lagged for a couple seconds and pushed past it and stayed active and ran fine, I then drove it and parked it while I ate and then went back out to leave and it started up fine again, went around the same corner believe it or not on the way home and the same thing, lagged for a second and pushed past it. parked it for the night and when I went to leave the next day it would not start, I pulled my coils and wires and 3 of my cylinders were full of oil. so I replaced my valve covers, coils, and plugs, cleaned it all up, and now still nothing. was thinking after that maybe gas? so I put 5$ in (only had a small red can) and still nothing, I am getting fuel to the fuel rail for sure tho. finally I checked my fuel pressure regulator and its pushing 10psi. but!!! I checked my megasquirt and none of the 3 lights that usually illuminate when I crank are turning on. any ideas? all fuses and relays are also perfectly fine. please help. [email protected] or ask for phone number if you need more info
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
If the LEDs are not coming on, this is a decent sign that your 5V circuit is dead or shorted out. Pull the MS and put it on a stimulater to see if it runs.

-John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
It's the weirdest thing TerrenceLP, I had a minor oil leak in the CPS so i took it apart to change the bearing and oil seal, and upon reassemply i accidentally tapped both the shaft and the sensor with my brass face hammer. Unfortunately breaking G1 pickup. So i swapped it out with another G1 sensor i had from a spare CPS, rewired it, and regapped it. And now i no longer have sync loss ever.

The only thing i did differently this time is instead of using a peice of paper for gapping the sensors i used a receipt. It is possible that the small oil leak had an effect of my sync as well. Ive heard of some people having success using G2 just need to adjust the trigger angle accordingly.

I still have some timing tuning to do, and after start enrichment/warm up enrichment but no longer have that really annoying hard stumble under load.

Btw what else are you running for your setup there Terrence?
Hello again, it's been awhile but I'd like to share where I'm at with my set up. Currently it's at the machine shop as I'm getting a full rebuild with forged piston 83.5mm, All ARP Studs & bolts, Aluminum Flywheel with Action Clutch and OEM Disk (all balanced from the crank pulley to the pressure plate.)
More detail list here - Click

As for the set up, I did the rebuild as a result of the clutch slipping all to hell once the car was dialed in. And pistons 5&6 were leaking.


Holset H1c 12cm2 divided t3 turbine housing 60mm exhaust/50mm compressor wheel, small but very responsive.
Tube header divided and hi-temp coated, full 3" exhaust from turbo vband. Driftmotion's exhaust, classic vehicle so cat-less.
550cc injectors low-z through a Acura legend resistor box.
1zz smart coils
MAC valve Electronic boost control
44psi MAP sensor
Bosch BOV, the 18psi one i think, it's the stiffest one you can get.
50mm HKS KO WG with 18lbs spring - open vent
Innovative wide band with gauge - MTX-L
ETS intercooler 3" core
44psi fuel pressure
T-6 5w-30 Rotella Diesel Oil - I can hold almost 9qts, even in 110 degrees and hard pulls, this oil never quits!
and stuff I'm forgetting...

A lot of heat shielding, aluminum radiator mishimoto, and Canton Racing 10 -AN oil filter relocation kit for a ford with a mocal thermostat to a lytron cooler.


end result



Here is my tune file for MS3 set up. I can get the Idle valve setting if you still need them. I drove this tune almost 2000 miles in less than 48 hours across the country is all types of weather, preformed flawlessly! Big Props to the creator of the file,
http://perfecttuning.net/wp/

Tune File - Chick Here

I'll check back but can be reached at [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
You never let us know if this worked. I am guessing it didnt since you never posted results.

So I played around with it today. Every time I changed the combination of rising/falling edge for each VR sensor the area of instability changed to a different part of the low RPM band. Seems to be exactly what they are describing. I hooked it up to my oscilloscope and the signal is crystal clear. The only setup I found that had no instability was setting both VR sensors to rising edge. I could only spin the sensor up to 2500 RPM with my drill, so it is possible it moved the instability up higher in the RPM range, but they say the instability generally happened at lower RPMs, so hopefully not. I will not know for sure until I actually put this on a car. I'll try to remember to post back here.
 
201 - 220 of 222 Posts
Top