Mike's (Supersubs's) Big Boy Build
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Thanks everyone.
Indeed, I think half the fun is trying to do things myself and obviously learn from the experience. Exactly as Seamus said, while the components designed and built around the motor have lots of time and money invested, the $400 short block is just an unopened junkyard motor that literally takes 2 guys all of 6 hours to swap out if needed. It's certainly not a huge deal to swap them out if something goes wrong, its just finding the motivation and spare time. While dyno tuning was something I was always intending, I simply got caught up having way too much fun with the car as it was running great as is. As I said, the car ran friggin fantastic on my home-brew tune without pinging when it was cooler out and I was lower on boost, even though I am admittedly a beginner with tuning and needs a considerable amount of more practice and direction. I have no regrets with the outcome of this 1UZ build so far, it's been so much fun and gotten so many compliments at shows and on the street. While it sucked to pop the first motor, It allowed me to make some needed and critical changes to the setup on the new motor.
The real issues started to happen as the ambient air temps skyrocketed in our area. The car was tuned at around 70 degree temps initially and ran great even with the aggressive timing map with no pinging, but once the outside temps crawled up I really struggled with intake air temps that led to on-boost pinging that would come and go. The pinging was so random that I thought it was perhaps an injector delivery issue at high load, perhaps due to bad flow-matching or sticking issues. But at only 7 PSI I wasn't anywhere near the dull duty cycle of the injectors, and after checking on them regularly I didn't see an issue. My plan right before the motor poped was to take the injectors back off and send them again for testing and flowmatching, but once the motor bought the farm it was too late. I did resend the injectors and some spares for testing just to be safe before using them on the second motor, and they came back with a very clean bill of health, matched within 6% of each other from Witchhunter.
The real issue that I was facing was boost spikes, and under hood temps where I draw the filtered air from. I stupidly used a port on the intake for the wastegate line that had a very small internal orifice to the actual intake chamber, and clearly wasn't efficient enough to properly actuate the wastegate. I drilled out the port with a 3/8" drill bit directly into the main intake chamber, and the difference is night and day. The wastegate and BOV were/are on the same source line, and the operation and actuation of the BOV currently VS before lets me know just how more optimized the vacuum source is now. Due to space restrictions, I am also running a K&N filter into a 90 degree 4" coupler, then straight into the turbo. This is all contained within the main engine bay, which turns into a sauna after extended driving times and especially on hot days. The 1UZ seems very sensitive to air temps, and seems to react considerably to different heat zones, much much more than my turbo 6M motor did which had a similar inlet and filter setup. The cramped space in the engine bay and lack of heat extraction builds the temps up quick, and combine that with boost spikes and even hotter ambient outside temps was the recipe for disaster. I only started seeing issues on the really hot days.
While the new considerably more conservative timing map from Clayton West's 1UZ turbo cressy is keeping me in a much more reliable and entirely ping-free state right now, I certainly have some things to take care of. Clayton's car is a pretty abused drift build, where his motor spends 80% of its life bouncing off the rev limiter at events for hours at a time, and even at 455HP @14PSI his setup is dead reliable with no detonation issues. I'm using his map right now and keeping the car at 5 PSI just to have fun for the rest of the season, and the plan will be to make the changes I want and dyno tune either over winter or early next season. I want to install a water/meth setup as discretely as possible (reservoir in hatch maybe?), use the EDIS-8 coil setup and wires I made but ditch the EDIS control and go dirrect coil control for soft-touch rev limiting and 2-step if I want, and finally take care of the intake air temps by either a CAI setup or some sort of fresh air inlet or considerable heat extraction from the hood. We are just finishing installing a dyno here at our shop, which is a godsend as we use to always outsource the job to a few choice shops around Chicago for tuning and was a logistical headache. We have also recently hired a tuning and wiring guru from Henessey Motorsports, who is an absolute wiz with these things. He comes from a steep Motec and Motorsports background, and also love Megasquirt. He actually borrows the MS coding for some of his LED display systems he designs and makes for various projects. I'm hoping to get a reliable 400HP tune which will be easy on 91 octane and around 10 PSI, which is more than enough power for me. I could certainly make alot more power, but reliability is a beautiful thing. I really just want to enjoy driving the car with no worries or headaches about big power problems, and the car is a riot at 10 PSI currently. My only other big changes will be the wheels and tires over the winter (hopefully if time works out), and a TKO600 trans swap in the near future. The W58 has been coping well (I am not too hard on it and am smart about my power delivery without shock loading the trans), but I can tell is being stressed and its a matter of time before it causes issues.
Thanks again everyone, hope to post lots of details and pictures soon.
-Mike
Indeed, I think half the fun is trying to do things myself and obviously learn from the experience. Exactly as Seamus said, while the components designed and built around the motor have lots of time and money invested, the $400 short block is just an unopened junkyard motor that literally takes 2 guys all of 6 hours to swap out if needed. It's certainly not a huge deal to swap them out if something goes wrong, its just finding the motivation and spare time. While dyno tuning was something I was always intending, I simply got caught up having way too much fun with the car as it was running great as is. As I said, the car ran friggin fantastic on my home-brew tune without pinging when it was cooler out and I was lower on boost, even though I am admittedly a beginner with tuning and needs a considerable amount of more practice and direction. I have no regrets with the outcome of this 1UZ build so far, it's been so much fun and gotten so many compliments at shows and on the street. While it sucked to pop the first motor, It allowed me to make some needed and critical changes to the setup on the new motor.
The real issues started to happen as the ambient air temps skyrocketed in our area. The car was tuned at around 70 degree temps initially and ran great even with the aggressive timing map with no pinging, but once the outside temps crawled up I really struggled with intake air temps that led to on-boost pinging that would come and go. The pinging was so random that I thought it was perhaps an injector delivery issue at high load, perhaps due to bad flow-matching or sticking issues. But at only 7 PSI I wasn't anywhere near the dull duty cycle of the injectors, and after checking on them regularly I didn't see an issue. My plan right before the motor poped was to take the injectors back off and send them again for testing and flowmatching, but once the motor bought the farm it was too late. I did resend the injectors and some spares for testing just to be safe before using them on the second motor, and they came back with a very clean bill of health, matched within 6% of each other from Witchhunter.
The real issue that I was facing was boost spikes, and under hood temps where I draw the filtered air from. I stupidly used a port on the intake for the wastegate line that had a very small internal orifice to the actual intake chamber, and clearly wasn't efficient enough to properly actuate the wastegate. I drilled out the port with a 3/8" drill bit directly into the main intake chamber, and the difference is night and day. The wastegate and BOV were/are on the same source line, and the operation and actuation of the BOV currently VS before lets me know just how more optimized the vacuum source is now. Due to space restrictions, I am also running a K&N filter into a 90 degree 4" coupler, then straight into the turbo. This is all contained within the main engine bay, which turns into a sauna after extended driving times and especially on hot days. The 1UZ seems very sensitive to air temps, and seems to react considerably to different heat zones, much much more than my turbo 6M motor did which had a similar inlet and filter setup. The cramped space in the engine bay and lack of heat extraction builds the temps up quick, and combine that with boost spikes and even hotter ambient outside temps was the recipe for disaster. I only started seeing issues on the really hot days.
While the new considerably more conservative timing map from Clayton West's 1UZ turbo cressy is keeping me in a much more reliable and entirely ping-free state right now, I certainly have some things to take care of. Clayton's car is a pretty abused drift build, where his motor spends 80% of its life bouncing off the rev limiter at events for hours at a time, and even at 455HP @14PSI his setup is dead reliable with no detonation issues. I'm using his map right now and keeping the car at 5 PSI just to have fun for the rest of the season, and the plan will be to make the changes I want and dyno tune either over winter or early next season. I want to install a water/meth setup as discretely as possible (reservoir in hatch maybe?), use the EDIS-8 coil setup and wires I made but ditch the EDIS control and go dirrect coil control for soft-touch rev limiting and 2-step if I want, and finally take care of the intake air temps by either a CAI setup or some sort of fresh air inlet or considerable heat extraction from the hood. We are just finishing installing a dyno here at our shop, which is a godsend as we use to always outsource the job to a few choice shops around Chicago for tuning and was a logistical headache. We have also recently hired a tuning and wiring guru from Henessey Motorsports, who is an absolute wiz with these things. He comes from a steep Motec and Motorsports background, and also love Megasquirt. He actually borrows the MS coding for some of his LED display systems he designs and makes for various projects. I'm hoping to get a reliable 400HP tune which will be easy on 91 octane and around 10 PSI, which is more than enough power for me. I could certainly make alot more power, but reliability is a beautiful thing. I really just want to enjoy driving the car with no worries or headaches about big power problems, and the car is a riot at 10 PSI currently. My only other big changes will be the wheels and tires over the winter (hopefully if time works out), and a TKO600 trans swap in the near future. The W58 has been coping well (I am not too hard on it and am smart about my power delivery without shock loading the trans), but I can tell is being stressed and its a matter of time before it causes issues.
Thanks again everyone, hope to post lots of details and pictures soon.
-Mike
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10,234 Posts
When I built Deanfun's IC setup we had the filter in the same spot and the size of the filter he wanted to run and the routing of the piping precluded doing a traditional CAI setup. This is what I came up with...
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Swiss cheesed the front apron panel. Seems to have worked well so far. However on yours, this would be a PITA to do now and you don't have a charge pipe going through that hole the AFM wiring comes out of. Maybe you can open that up some more and find a way to get it to draw air in. The wheel well liner blocks the other side of that hole from getting much flow but maybe you can fix that.
Swiss cheesed the front apron panel. Seems to have worked well so far. However on yours, this would be a PITA to do now and you don't have a charge pipe going through that hole the AFM wiring comes out of. Maybe you can open that up some more and find a way to get it to draw air in. The wheel well liner blocks the other side of that hole from getting much flow but maybe you can fix that.
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2,424 Posts
Thanks Seamus. I was thinking of cutting a hole into the apron and trying to run a 4" or maybe stepped down 3.5 or 3" aluminum tube from the turbo inlet, the the passenger side square opening in the front fascia with a good filter. I was also thinking about just building a nice sealed air box around the existing filter area (just some simple thin carbon fiber sheets fastened together with seals to the apron/fender and hood), and either adding a vent through the headlight door to force fresh air in, or a vent in the hood. Either way I'm cutting into things, but a nice aluminum pipe to the bottom of the car for fresh air is probably the best way to get cool air.
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Happy to report the car is still driving great, and I brought it up to Northern Chicago for a week of fun. Its been great driving the car around in the cool mornings (the car loves the cold air) and cruising to work and back. I will be attending the Wauconda Cruise Nights show this Tuesday (tomorrow night), with a handful of other guys from the shop and their personal builds. I know there are a few members just south of me here, and it would be great to meet you if you wanted to stop out. I should be there just after 5 when I get off work, and stay until dark. PM me if you want my cell so we can meet up if anyone wants.
-Mike
Happy to report the car is still driving great, and I brought it up to Northern Chicago for a week of fun. Its been great driving the car around in the cool mornings (the car loves the cold air) and cruising to work and back. I will be attending the Wauconda Cruise Nights show this Tuesday (tomorrow night), with a handful of other guys from the shop and their personal builds. I know there are a few members just south of me here, and it would be great to meet you if you wanted to stop out. I should be there just after 5 when I get off work, and stay until dark. PM me if you want my cell so we can meet up if anyone wants.
-Mike
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2,424 Posts
Thanks Jim, its a great area to catch alot of different and interesting car shows for sure.
Before the show last night, I brought the car into the shop on my lunch break for a quick detail, and somehow we ended up truing the corner weights and levels of the car. Big thanks to our mechanic guru Paul for helping me get everything set up, we were all really surprised by the initial corner weight balance and overall weight of the car. The car is pretty level to achieve the nice balances from left to right, we only had to do a few turns on the front coilovers to set the corners correctly. The left front corner is about 1/4" higher than the left at the flare to get the weights matched (if that's even accurate since it is bolted on), and the rear is the same height left to right measured at the flare. The front to rear bias is also pretty nice, I'm happy to see the overall outcome. We set the car up and weighed it with no driver or passenger, and about 3/4 tank of gas. I wanted the car set with no one in the driver seat since I almost always have a passenger with me when I drive the car. I was really surprised by the weight, I would have thought for sure that with the paint and body work, body kit, turbo plumbing and components, stereo equipment, and all the fabricated steel components that the car would be around 3300-3400 lbs.
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I have some good pics from the show last night, including a beautiful OEM restored silver p-type that rolled in just after I did, which I will hopefully post up tonight.
Thanks,
-Mike
Before the show last night, I brought the car into the shop on my lunch break for a quick detail, and somehow we ended up truing the corner weights and levels of the car. Big thanks to our mechanic guru Paul for helping me get everything set up, we were all really surprised by the initial corner weight balance and overall weight of the car. The car is pretty level to achieve the nice balances from left to right, we only had to do a few turns on the front coilovers to set the corners correctly. The left front corner is about 1/4" higher than the left at the flare to get the weights matched (if that's even accurate since it is bolted on), and the rear is the same height left to right measured at the flare. The front to rear bias is also pretty nice, I'm happy to see the overall outcome. We set the car up and weighed it with no driver or passenger, and about 3/4 tank of gas. I wanted the car set with no one in the driver seat since I almost always have a passenger with me when I drive the car. I was really surprised by the weight, I would have thought for sure that with the paint and body work, body kit, turbo plumbing and components, stereo equipment, and all the fabricated steel components that the car would be around 3300-3400 lbs.
I have some good pics from the show last night, including a beautiful OEM restored silver p-type that rolled in just after I did, which I will hopefully post up tonight.
Thanks,
-Mike
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Ha! An 84+ Ptype 5spd with 3/4 tank of gas that weighs 3060lbs, according to the scales your car is bone stock! lol You can credit that aluminum block for making your mods weight neutral.
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weird, i weighed my 82 when it was stockish and it was in the 2800 range. not sure when i did this and if that was without PS/AC FFIM and the coilovers. I'm going to redo my weight as I've done a lot of stuff since, but I do not remember these being 3k. my cressida with 1jz, big single, big 18s, weighed 3200
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I've weighed multiple bone stock 85/86s with those mods and that amount of gas on multiple different truck stops and gotten that same 3040-3080 numbers.
My black 86 with carbon hood, no PS, AC, rear seats, hatch interior plus countless things under the hood ditched, half a tank of gas and no spare\tools and light weight wheels weighs exactly 2800lbs. Weighed on our local drag strips scales, which is fully sanctioned and widely regarded as the best track on the north west. There's some differences with 82s, but nothing significant.
My black 86 with carbon hood, no PS, AC, rear seats, hatch interior plus countless things under the hood ditched, half a tank of gas and no spare\tools and light weight wheels weighs exactly 2800lbs. Weighed on our local drag strips scales, which is fully sanctioned and widely regarded as the best track on the north west. There's some differences with 82s, but nothing significant.
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Hello gang, I am still alive and do still have my mk2!
Lots of changes in my life, but things are going great. Work is extremely demanding and challenging (as always), but still very rewarding and good to me. We have added huge additions to our shop and grown from a 25 employee family owned company when I started, to a 50+ employee company in just over 4 years since I have been at The Roadster Shop. We are installing a new, very high end fiber laser cutting table with a tube laser cutting lathe system, which is going to help alot with kick ass projects in the future.
The Datsun 620 build is still full speed ahead and snowballing wildy out of control. Not sure where I left off on updates, but its now a rear bed mounted twin turbo system with water to air intercooling and lots of other insane crap going on. Pleanty of pics on my Instagram (@3d_magic_mike), so I wont clutter this thread with any pics of it. www.instagram.com/3d_magic_mike
I got rid of my mk6 GTI and went back to the wagon life for a daily driver. Picked up a CPO'd B8.5 Audi Allroad for an amazing price, and immediately dropped it on coilovers and set it on some OEM Ronal built AUDI RS5 Titan Rotor wheels. It's a bit of a fat slow poke compared to the nimble GTI, and my first automatic car, but it's insanely comfy and spacious with great MPG's, and gets lots of compliments everywhere I go.
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The Supra is still running and driving great, I drive it from time to time but not as often as I should or would like to. I have made some small changes here and there on the car but a few things need to happen relatively soon. My tried and trued OG Innovate LM-1 wideband controller has finally shit the bed after almost a decade of reliable use, with the readouts starting to freeze on both the display and the output to my ECU. I'm going to toss in a new LC-2 with an simple universal LCD AF/R numerical display where my old remote LM-1 display use to live. No idle control on the motor has been really annoying, so I have a fix for that in the works also. Some big upgrades are currently in the skunk works right now, I finally have had a set of killer forged 3 piece wheels on their way from Japan after waiting 4 months for them to be built, and I think it's going to be a huge change for the car. Big thanks to Malloy for never stopping his quest to see me get rid of my "fake" wheels, it was a big dive but i'm glad I made it! :laugh: I really hope to get out to more shows this year before it gets cold, mostly around the Chicago area once the car is set up on its new shoes.
Wheels should be in my hands tomorrow, but tires have already arrived. I'm either an idiot or just a glutton for punishment, but i'm looking forward to the hacking challenge to try and fit these 315/30/18 Toyo R888r's in the rear and be the first to run 315's on a mk2.
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I'm really hoping this is a possibility with creative trimming and ride height, but if it just isn't possible without serious sheetmetal work, I will be returning the Toyo's and running Pilot Sports in 295 on the rear again. Tire selection for 25" diameter and very wide tires is becoming scarce, making it hard to match brands and tread patterns front to rear with a staggered setup. Thanks again Mike Malloy for the hookup and motivation for the wheels, i'm pumped about them!
-Mike
Lots of changes in my life, but things are going great. Work is extremely demanding and challenging (as always), but still very rewarding and good to me. We have added huge additions to our shop and grown from a 25 employee family owned company when I started, to a 50+ employee company in just over 4 years since I have been at The Roadster Shop. We are installing a new, very high end fiber laser cutting table with a tube laser cutting lathe system, which is going to help alot with kick ass projects in the future.
The Datsun 620 build is still full speed ahead and snowballing wildy out of control. Not sure where I left off on updates, but its now a rear bed mounted twin turbo system with water to air intercooling and lots of other insane crap going on. Pleanty of pics on my Instagram (@3d_magic_mike), so I wont clutter this thread with any pics of it. www.instagram.com/3d_magic_mike
I got rid of my mk6 GTI and went back to the wagon life for a daily driver. Picked up a CPO'd B8.5 Audi Allroad for an amazing price, and immediately dropped it on coilovers and set it on some OEM Ronal built AUDI RS5 Titan Rotor wheels. It's a bit of a fat slow poke compared to the nimble GTI, and my first automatic car, but it's insanely comfy and spacious with great MPG's, and gets lots of compliments everywhere I go.
The Supra is still running and driving great, I drive it from time to time but not as often as I should or would like to. I have made some small changes here and there on the car but a few things need to happen relatively soon. My tried and trued OG Innovate LM-1 wideband controller has finally shit the bed after almost a decade of reliable use, with the readouts starting to freeze on both the display and the output to my ECU. I'm going to toss in a new LC-2 with an simple universal LCD AF/R numerical display where my old remote LM-1 display use to live. No idle control on the motor has been really annoying, so I have a fix for that in the works also. Some big upgrades are currently in the skunk works right now, I finally have had a set of killer forged 3 piece wheels on their way from Japan after waiting 4 months for them to be built, and I think it's going to be a huge change for the car. Big thanks to Malloy for never stopping his quest to see me get rid of my "fake" wheels, it was a big dive but i'm glad I made it! :laugh: I really hope to get out to more shows this year before it gets cold, mostly around the Chicago area once the car is set up on its new shoes.
Wheels should be in my hands tomorrow, but tires have already arrived. I'm either an idiot or just a glutton for punishment, but i'm looking forward to the hacking challenge to try and fit these 315/30/18 Toyo R888r's in the rear and be the first to run 315's on a mk2.
I'm really hoping this is a possibility with creative trimming and ride height, but if it just isn't possible without serious sheetmetal work, I will be returning the Toyo's and running Pilot Sports in 295 on the rear again. Tire selection for 25" diameter and very wide tires is becoming scarce, making it hard to match brands and tread patterns front to rear with a staggered setup. Thanks again Mike Malloy for the hookup and motivation for the wheels, i'm pumped about them!
-Mike
Joined
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2,424 Posts
Thanks gents
Big news, is that THE WHEEL IS HERE! And by wheel, I mean singularly, because unfortunately only a single wheel showed up today, with the other 3 delayed for delivery tomorrow. Of course, it was a skinny front that showed up instead of a nice fat rear, but i'm still not complaining with that beauty! <3 <3
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Huge thanks to Mike Malloy again for getting me the killer hookup with the guys at RavSpec for a full set of Work Meister S1 3 Piece wheels, with gloss black lips, matte black centers, and the bling bling gold hardware! I'll leave specs out till I have pictures of all the wheels together, but I am super happy with the outcome. 4 months was a long time to wait, but well worth it. Tires in front will be Toyo R1r 255's to match as a milder version of the 315 R888R's out back.
More to come!
-Mike
I'm trying to only trim the sheetmetal hidden under the fender flare itself, I really don't want to cut into any of the quarter panel's outside tub work and I definitely don't wan't to mini tub it. My biggest constraint moving inboard is the placement of the retrofit coilovers and the trailing side of the inner sheetmetal tubs (if memory serves me right, its been a while since I really stared at it). I'll be able to look more at it this weekend when I test fit the wheels, but iv'e really been wanting to find an excuse to remove the entire rear subframe from the car, and scan the rear of the car to plan a proper SLA lower and upper control arm IRS setup. Get rid of the factory front subrame span I have retrofit to my new IRS system, and start from scratch still using the 8.8 IRS and axle set I have already bought and figured out. Set a good but not unnecessary camber curve to tuck the wheel and tire in the best way to the fender flare and get some proper ant-squat geometry in the rear, and set an adjustable toe arm mount that either allows static zero toe change through travel or allows some small toe curve for turn assist through travel. I already have C5 hubs, C5 brakes, C5 parking brakes, and 18" wheels, so using a C5/6/7 spindle would be a no brainier. We already machine all the cups and tapered sleeves at work to accept the Corvette's balljoint when making custom control arms, adn with our new tube laser it will be a breaze to make a much lighter tubular system. Alot of people have asked me about reproducing my IRS setup, but there are so many better ways to do it (rather than a dated semi-trailing arm system with old original parts retrofit in) that I would rather design a SLA system if reproducing kits would ever be an option. Don't get me wrong, I love my setup now. It feels great and is very predictable dynamicly, but controlling the wheel's toe and camber through travel with a trailing arm setup is a loosing battle.
Big news, is that THE WHEEL IS HERE! And by wheel, I mean singularly, because unfortunately only a single wheel showed up today, with the other 3 delayed for delivery tomorrow. Of course, it was a skinny front that showed up instead of a nice fat rear, but i'm still not complaining with that beauty! <3 <3
Huge thanks to Mike Malloy again for getting me the killer hookup with the guys at RavSpec for a full set of Work Meister S1 3 Piece wheels, with gloss black lips, matte black centers, and the bling bling gold hardware! I'll leave specs out till I have pictures of all the wheels together, but I am super happy with the outcome. 4 months was a long time to wait, but well worth it. Tires in front will be Toyo R1r 255's to match as a milder version of the 315 R888R's out back.
More to come!
-Mike
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8,745 Posts
Personally I think its best to cut back most of the sheetmetal behind the flare at least. Closest area of interference on my car is the hump in the wheel wheel around the spring. I have 3/8-1/2 of clearance in most spots (to arm, shock, fuel neck protector), but pretty much zip when the suspension is fully compressed.
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10,234 Posts
The little lip that extends into the well of the stock quater is actually quite simple to remove and gives you about an extra half inch clearance. That sheet metal is only 1 layer thick, its the wheel well metal that extends in, so you can get away with just trimming it off and not having to reweld any spot welds. I don't have a pic handy for this done on a PType (we did it to Deanfun's 85), but here's one to an L...
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You can attain a similar level of minimal metal there on a PType, and without damaging the sealer and paint on the outside if you're really careful (a small and precise reciprocating saw is best for keeping the heat down).
I don't know about 315s though. You may still need to push out the sheet metal and get more aggressive with the metal work, which will drastically affect the stock flares fitment.
Sounds like you've been doing a lot more suspension work since you did your custom trailing arm setup. I'd say we're pretty in sync now with our opinions on the rear IRS.
Nice to see you back Mike!
You can attain a similar level of minimal metal there on a PType, and without damaging the sealer and paint on the outside if you're really careful (a small and precise reciprocating saw is best for keeping the heat down).
I don't know about 315s though. You may still need to push out the sheet metal and get more aggressive with the metal work, which will drastically affect the stock flares fitment.
Sounds like you've been doing a lot more suspension work since you did your custom trailing arm setup. I'd say we're pretty in sync now with our opinions on the rear IRS.
Nice to see you back Mike!
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2,424 Posts
Thanks guys. Results from test fitting confirm that the the placement and main body diameter of my coilovers are one of the biggest fitment issues with getting the 315's stuffed inside the rear well. It looks almost doable, but would require alot more work than I am willing to take on right now. At my rear track width and the wheel offset I used, the 315 tire's sidewalls would end up just inside the very outside face of the fender lips, requiring almost all the bottom lip of the fiberglass to be trimmed and letting the inner sheet metal be the limiting factor under compression. I really want to get the car back on the road and drive it through the rest of the season, so I sent back the Toyo 315 rear and the 255 fronts, and bought a new set of Michelin Pilot Sports in my tried and trued sizes of 295/30 rear and 245/35 front.
The rears showed up the next day after the single front wheel arrived, and they are an amazing comparison with width, wheel face profile, and outside lip.
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These wheels are 11's out back and my old wheels were 10.5's (same offset basically), but that extra quarter inch on each side makes a big difference. Under compression, the inside lip of the rim is basically on the outer diameter of the springs with the extra quarter inch they protrude inward. TO get away from this, I am installing shorter springs to lower my spring perch and spring to be entirely inside the wheel barrel through the entire range of travel, giving me the extra room off the difference in the coilover body and the spring thickness. Not an ideal situation to run the spring perch so high and towards the end of the body of the coilover, but it will work well to give me the clearance I need.
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The front brakes were intensely tight to the new front wheel faces. We are talking maybe only a piece of paper clearance at some points of the calipers to the wheel face. It looks amazing with the brakes stuffed in so tight to the face of the wheel, but it leaves no room for compliance, heat expansion, or rocks and debris possibly getting wedged into the tights spots and really making a mess of the finish. I have a pair of 1/4" spacers I am going to use which will give me some more safety clearance to the wheel faces, and also help keep the inner lip of the wheel's barrel a bit farther from the strut assembly which was again crazy close tolleranced. I am lathe turning some custom hub-centric rings to make sure everything stays centered properly. Here is a cheeky video I made of the clearance and posted to my IG account over last weekend:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLee5lBUTi/
The stepped down lips on the wheels really help to make the centers of the wheels look smaller and in my opinion "more proper" sized to the age of the car. I think the black lips will also help hide some of the "massiveness" of the wheels, and let everything fit the look of the car nicely.
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I didn't get many amazing photos with the wheels on the car since I was crawling all around the car measuring and testing everything the entire time. Once the car is squared away and properly cleaned, I will be sure to take a nice long photo session. I did snag this quick cell phone pic of the side after adjusting the rear coilovers around a bunch to check their clearance to the rear wheels (the rear needs to settle considerably in this pic):
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I am hoping to have the tires mounted later today and get a test fit in this weekend if I don't have to work on Saturday. I have a few other cool projects going on within the interior that I am hoping to post on soon also.
-Mike
The rears showed up the next day after the single front wheel arrived, and they are an amazing comparison with width, wheel face profile, and outside lip.
These wheels are 11's out back and my old wheels were 10.5's (same offset basically), but that extra quarter inch on each side makes a big difference. Under compression, the inside lip of the rim is basically on the outer diameter of the springs with the extra quarter inch they protrude inward. TO get away from this, I am installing shorter springs to lower my spring perch and spring to be entirely inside the wheel barrel through the entire range of travel, giving me the extra room off the difference in the coilover body and the spring thickness. Not an ideal situation to run the spring perch so high and towards the end of the body of the coilover, but it will work well to give me the clearance I need.
The front brakes were intensely tight to the new front wheel faces. We are talking maybe only a piece of paper clearance at some points of the calipers to the wheel face. It looks amazing with the brakes stuffed in so tight to the face of the wheel, but it leaves no room for compliance, heat expansion, or rocks and debris possibly getting wedged into the tights spots and really making a mess of the finish. I have a pair of 1/4" spacers I am going to use which will give me some more safety clearance to the wheel faces, and also help keep the inner lip of the wheel's barrel a bit farther from the strut assembly which was again crazy close tolleranced. I am lathe turning some custom hub-centric rings to make sure everything stays centered properly. Here is a cheeky video I made of the clearance and posted to my IG account over last weekend:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLee5lBUTi/
The stepped down lips on the wheels really help to make the centers of the wheels look smaller and in my opinion "more proper" sized to the age of the car. I think the black lips will also help hide some of the "massiveness" of the wheels, and let everything fit the look of the car nicely.
I didn't get many amazing photos with the wheels on the car since I was crawling all around the car measuring and testing everything the entire time. Once the car is squared away and properly cleaned, I will be sure to take a nice long photo session. I did snag this quick cell phone pic of the side after adjusting the rear coilovers around a bunch to check their clearance to the rear wheels (the rear needs to settle considerably in this pic):
I am hoping to have the tires mounted later today and get a test fit in this weekend if I don't have to work on Saturday. I have a few other cool projects going on within the interior that I am hoping to post on soon also.
-Mike
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6,308 Posts
You won't know if you will have tire rubbing issues in front until you make and install the front spacers,with the tires mounted. You are going to the extreme on tire size,Mike.
You may have to adjust the caster and camber to accommodate the big meats in front.
I have done that with very large tires on a Miata. I had to take some caster out to avoid rubbing issues. I test drive all of my aligned cars.
I'm not sure how you are going to avoid wheel/tire contact with the spring perch modification,yet.
To be explained later. PLEASE.
Thanks for the great photos and explanations! (thumbs up).
To allow a little scrub,place news paper under the blocks OR the tires to allow a little movement under the tires under suspension compression. Works fine.It will allow just enough slide to take out any positive camber.
You may have to adjust the caster and camber to accommodate the big meats in front.
I have done that with very large tires on a Miata. I had to take some caster out to avoid rubbing issues. I test drive all of my aligned cars.
I'm not sure how you are going to avoid wheel/tire contact with the spring perch modification,yet.
To be explained later. PLEASE.
Thanks for the great photos and explanations! (thumbs up).
To allow a little scrub,place news paper under the blocks OR the tires to allow a little movement under the tires under suspension compression. Works fine.It will allow just enough slide to take out any positive camber.
Joined
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10,234 Posts
Nice choice on the wheels Mike, they suit the car. Love 3 piece wheels and the look, and now you have some legit dish.
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2,424 Posts
I ended up getting scared after mocking up the 315's in the empty wheel wells, and traded them for 295's again but this time on 11" wide wheels so they have a very mild stretch. 315's could be plausible if the coilover mounting position was altered to shove it farther inboard and the entire OEM upper spring perch "hump" is removed and smoothed, but would still cause the outer sidewall to sit pretty far outside the body line and not leave much for tucking under camber/compression. 305/30/18 would be the ticket, but they no longer exist in street tires. I'm happy with the 295 Pilot Sports, they still bring on plenty of beef in the rear of the car. I still ended up cutting the majority of the fiberglass lip from the rear flares, removed all the protruding metal flare material as far as I could up to the flare mounting bolts, and beat the hell out of the OEM upper spring perch sheet metal with a hammer to give me the compliance clearance I wanted. I also moved to 400 LB rear springs for now to see how the rear squats under load and how I can control the rear compression before anything rubs, I may bump the rate up after I do some test launching and cruising on bumpy roads. Since i'm not using the OEM bump stop anymore, I think I might make an adjustable progressive conical bumpstop mount and weld it to the sub rail at the strongest and closest point I can to axle CL to control my compression limits since the stokes of the coilovers allow way more travel than the tire fitment will allow.
I ended up adding 1/4" spacers with customer made hubcentric rings to the fronts to gain some additional clearance from the wheel faces to the brake calipers, which does help bring the front to a more flush look to the flares. I raised the front slightly to compensate for clearance with my turn angles and compression with the slightly wider front setup. I currently have the inner fender liners installed but will gauge how much rubbing or issues I have, and may remove them later.
Overall, I am super excited with how all of this turned out. The look is exactly what I wanted (plus a whole damn lot more), and the look of the Michelin Pilot Sports kind of adds a restrained "grown up" look to the wheel and tire setup. The Toyo R888r's were extremely aggressive looking, but most people say they are very noisy so I think I made the better decision with the tires. It's nice that I can also at least rotate the staggered wheels and tires from left to right with these. Once I am done with some new wiring and interior mods, it's time to put some miles on this setup and dial in the suspension settings so I can ENJOY this car as much as I want to and know I should be!
The Specs:
Wheels: Work Meister S1 3-Piece, gloss black lips, matte black centers and inner barrels, gold hardware. 18x8.5 +23 L Disk Front (Additional 1/4" spacers used on each wheel), 18x11 +11 O Disk Rear (PLEASE NOTE THESE OFFSETS WILL NOT WORK FOR A STOCK MK2, my custom front and rear 5-lug conversion and suspension has altered the track widths and therefore the offsets)
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport, 245/35/18 Front, 295/30/18 Rear
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-Mike
I ended up adding 1/4" spacers with customer made hubcentric rings to the fronts to gain some additional clearance from the wheel faces to the brake calipers, which does help bring the front to a more flush look to the flares. I raised the front slightly to compensate for clearance with my turn angles and compression with the slightly wider front setup. I currently have the inner fender liners installed but will gauge how much rubbing or issues I have, and may remove them later.
Overall, I am super excited with how all of this turned out. The look is exactly what I wanted (plus a whole damn lot more), and the look of the Michelin Pilot Sports kind of adds a restrained "grown up" look to the wheel and tire setup. The Toyo R888r's were extremely aggressive looking, but most people say they are very noisy so I think I made the better decision with the tires. It's nice that I can also at least rotate the staggered wheels and tires from left to right with these. Once I am done with some new wiring and interior mods, it's time to put some miles on this setup and dial in the suspension settings so I can ENJOY this car as much as I want to and know I should be!
The Specs:
Wheels: Work Meister S1 3-Piece, gloss black lips, matte black centers and inner barrels, gold hardware. 18x8.5 +23 L Disk Front (Additional 1/4" spacers used on each wheel), 18x11 +11 O Disk Rear (PLEASE NOTE THESE OFFSETS WILL NOT WORK FOR A STOCK MK2, my custom front and rear 5-lug conversion and suspension has altered the track widths and therefore the offsets)
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport, 245/35/18 Front, 295/30/18 Rear
-Mike
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