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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why is it that i keep hearing all this stuff about how people with nearly stock MkII's are beating MkIII turbos in the 1/4? Is there something wrong with this. Considering a 60 horsepower difference and not much weight? What are some adverage times for the 2 cars in the 1/4 because this is really confusing my little brain
 

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Whoops.... Is this assuming that the MKII still has a 5MGE??? Or has it been turbo'd, or it has a 7M-GTE transplant?? If it is a 7M-GTE transplant then, it more has to do w/ how much weight the motor has to pull around.

MKII's weigh about "roughly" 3200 - 3300 lbs (someone correct me on this).

MKIII's weigh about 3600 - 3700 lbs.

Just this 400 - 500 lbs difference for the most part, is one of the reasons why.

Now if it's still a stock 5MGE, then the MKII should be the slower car.

Others?????????
 

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Scale weight with Ophir in his 84 was right at 3100lbs.Your right on with the mkIII's Chris.

A well tuned 5mge and a good driver,against a mkIII turbo and a shitty driver,easy deal.3rd gens are fat,heavy pigs,but damn they drive nice :D
 

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According to the magazine articles, when the cars were new....
Stock Mk2's would run mid to high 16's in the quarter.
Stock Mk3 Turbos would run mid 15's in the quarter.

I've dragged my 83 many times, and consistently get 16.1 to 16.3's. That's with intake, exhaust, timing advanced to 14 deg and AFM mod.

Mk3 Turbos that I see at the drags tend to run slower than the mag articles say. Stock ones tend to run mid 16's, even ones with shimmed wastegates running 8 psi tend to run low 16's. Autos are a tad slower. Maybe bad drivers, maybe they lose HP as they age, not sure.
Anyway, end result is that a lightly modded Mk2 will give a Mk3T a run for its money in the quarter, should be a very close race. Mk2 will get the jump out of the hole, then the Mk3T will start to reel it in after the 1/8th mile marker. Driver skill may be the deciding factor.
Mk3T will kick 5M-GE powered Mk2's ass on the highway though.
 

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Junkie said:
Scale weight with Ophir in his 84 was right at 3100lbs.Your right on with the mkIII's Chris.
you sure about that weight figure Shawn? That can't be right, maybe the scale was off. I've weighed all of my mk2s, and wet but driverless they all weighed between 3040 to 3080 pounds, stock. 3200 to 3300 seems to be more common weights for 7mgted mk2s.
 

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And there is another stat to remember , everything else being equal, i.e., gearing, driver reaction time, etc. and that is it takes approx. 1 horsepower to overcome 10 pound weigh difference. Therefore with equal hp the MKIII is going down...
 

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SupraFiend,

I'd guess that Ophir has done some basic weight reduction mods to his car.

My 83 weighs in at 3025 to 3050 lbs with me in it when I race it. I've removed all A/C parts (40 lbs) and when racing, I remove spare tire, tool kit, my subwoofer box, roll-out cargo cover and run with a quarter to a half tank of gas.

Stats I've seen are that every 100 lbs removed from your car is like gaining 5 HP.
 

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I've seen ophirs car, and it looked stock to me. Don't remember whether it had the AC still. But still, you add a ct26,7m exhaust manifold, intercooler, IC plumbing, built 7mgte and all the extra turbo bits and a driver, you shouldn't be within 20 pounds of a stock mk2 :wink:
 

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But stock Mk2's weighed in at 2932 lbs in 82, and 2970 lbs in 83. I've got the original brochures here in front of me.
Not sure why your cars all weigh so much. 3040 to 3080 would be correct for stock Mk2 with full to the brim gas tank, with spare tire, etc, since a full tank of gas weighs approx 100 lbs.
 

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Say stk mk2 weighs 3000 lb and stk mk3 weighs 3600 lb.
Effectively the mk2 hp (comparing to the mk3) is
3600/3000 = 1.2 times. So mk2 effective hp = 161 x 1.2 = 193hp.
Very close to 200 hp mk3. Tires could easily make the difference.
 

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Dean & Seamus,

Ophir's 84 is now a A/C delete car. All of the A/C items have been removed.
 

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CJSREDPRA said:
Dean & Seamus,

Ophir's 84 is now a A/C delete car. All of the A/C items have been removed.

True,but nothing else has been removed.Add the extra weight from the gte and to4e,and the 17" wheels,pretty much equals it out.

Shawn
"Who gets the BABY back probably this weekend for some more tuning :D "
 

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LOL!!!!

Toomie get's to spend more time @ it's 2nd home.... :D

Don't forget, I still need Toomie's paint code!!! (and the one from Don's 2-tone 84).

Also, do you still have access to the dashpad & rear bumper cover that is in the spare room??? Phil Dupler still wants the dashpad, need to see if I can get it sent to him eventually. He no longer needs the bumper cover, need to figure out what I'm going to do w/ that... :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
correct me if im wrong but on my door of my 85 it says GVWR 3870??? Would that be 3870 pounds?
 

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CJSREDPRA said:
LOL!!!!

Toomie get's to spend more time @ it's 2nd home.... :D

Don't forget, I still need Toomie's paint code!!! (and the one from Don's 2-tone 84).

Also, do you still have access to the dashpad & rear bumper cover that is in the spare room??? Phil Dupler still wants the dashpad, need to see if I can get it sent to him eventually. He no longer needs the bumper cover, need to figure out what I'm going to do w/ that... :?
I have not forgotten about the paint code,just waiting to get her here.
The dash and bumper are actualy in a big ass box,ready to ship,could be re-done if needed.The only way I have found to send it was greyhound,and I have not made it that far.
I'm REALLY SLOW,and actually need help with it,as my back is not in good enough shape to even put it in my truck :( F-ing 25# weight limit sucks,and is for real.


Apologys for high-jacking the thread.
 

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GVWR= Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. The maximum the vehicle should weigh when fully loaded with fuel, driver, passengers and stuff (i.e Groceries, clothes, McDonlads bags... you get the idea)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alright i got it now, so my glove box says the max i can hold is 750 lb's and then a full tank which is like 125? Subtract those 2 to get the weight. I got it yay...
 

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Dean, factory brochures always list dry weights, my cars aren't heavy, in fact my 86 is quite light (no sunroof, saves aprox 40 pounds). I believe from your weight list it was established that removing the entire ac system could save 40 pounds. Well, I had a complete 7mgte turbo system, including exh mani, ct26, oil filter relocater, intercooler, and all stock piping, and I shipped to a guy in pennslyvania, it weighed 80 pounds. I'd love to see some weight values between 7mgte and 5m long blocks, but I doubt the 7m is any lighter. Yes its missing the separate (and heavy) cam towers, but it has twice the number of valves, springs, retainers etc plus the block has oil squirters. Ophirs car also has hard pipe plumbing replacing the stock 7m plastic stuff, and heavy ass rims. So if the only thing missing from the car is the ac, with driver I'd expect it to weigh at least 3300 pounds with a 150 pound driver. I say the scale is wrong. I've weighed 3 different 85s and 86s, all stock with approx 1/2 tank of gas, on mulitple different trucker scales, and the numbers have always been between 3040 and 3080.
 

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Was at a truck scale,and was also before it went A/C delete.Guess I'll be running her back across the scale as soon as she's in my posession again :wink:
 
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