Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner
21 - 40 of 63 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Already got some progress on the offseason projects. Car is up high on stands and transmission is out. This is the first time being able to put the stock Toyota W58 next to the Z32 turbo trans. Weight difference is 17lbs heavier for the Nissan transmission. Not much of a gain for adding something that will handle more power. The stock Toyota trans was probably at its max with the 1UZ and there isn't much for parts out there for it while the Nissan trans still has everything out there for fixing. The adaptor plate needed to mate this trans to the motor was purchased today so I can start measuring to see what shifter setup I need to make this work.

I weighed the fenders before they get picked up to get a mold made of them. They come in at 14lbs each so anything I gain from the trans I should lose from the new fenders.

Toyota on the left, Nissan on the right:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Small update on the trans swap. I got the adaptor plate in from Collins Adaptors. I forgot to take a picture before bolting it on for test fitting. I jacked up the 300ZX trans to test fit and see where I go from there. It looks like I will need a different pilot bearing so I am not able to fully bolt the trans up yet but the amazing news from this is if I get a shifter relocation kit for the top plate it will line up perfectly with the Supra's shifter hole. No cutting will be required at all! Additionally, there is no modification to the trans tunnel needed as well. I will have to remove the reverse lighter sensor and cut a small unused bracket off of it for better fitment but that is quite minor.



At the same time, I am also working on removing unnecessary wiring in the car. Mostly A/C wires but also things like fog light and horn wiring. Keeping all the wiring, plugs, electrical tape I took off so I can weigh when done to see what the weight savings will be. My guess is it should be around 5-10 lbs. Just like with most wiring jobs, this looks a lot harder than it actually is. Having the electrical diagram in pdf forum to easily view on my phone and just following it makes it quite easy. Most of the wires I am removing were unplugged already anyway.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
796 Posts
Nice build so far! I too went with the 1UZ swap, that driver's side exhaust is a royal pain in the ass alright! Took a slightly different approach with it and went with 2UZ exhaust from (iirc) an '06 Tundra, removed the flange and welded stainless direct and brought the connection several inches further down. Modified the steering linkage to have a u-joint in between to move the steering rod over a bit, unfortunately, that transfers a slight notchy feeling directly to the steering wheel. It works, but isn't the solution either.

Good luck with the build and look forward to more updates!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Nice build so far! I too went with the 1UZ swap, that driver's side exhaust is a royal pain in the ass alright! Took a slightly different approach with it and went with 2UZ exhaust from (iirc) an '06 Tundra, removed the flange and welded stainless direct and brought the connection several inches further down. Modified the steering linkage to have a u-joint in between to move the steering rod over a bit, unfortunately, that transfers a slight notchy feeling directly to the steering wheel. It works, but isn't the solution either.

Good luck with the build and look forward to more updates!
If I get everything else done on my planned project list for the offseason I am going to look at exhaust options again. I might try and figure out how to make a custom header on the left side.

Is that "frame damage" just the box by your feet between the actual inner frame rails and the outer rockers? Those get crushed all the time by people trying to jack the car up by them.
I had a buddy who is a body guy for a living look at it. He said that the little "box" isn't structural and that I shouldn't worry about trying to fix it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,626 Posts
Whoa, I'm late to the party, but awesome thread!

Jeeze, sounds like you have been here awhile (2013), surprised we haven't crossed paths more, we have a very similar story and build direction with our cars. Did you ever see my build thread?


Biggest difference is I built an NA 6m. So many things to talk about after reading your entire thread this morning....

- how do you find those 245s on the street? I've been awfully tempted to move to that size as 225/50-15 is pretty much dead, I just didn't care for the huge drop in diameter.

- you said your hood dropped 16lbs, so it weighs 26lbs? Stock hood is 42lbs. I had some carbon and FB ones built back in the 2000s.

- yeah, not surprised you went back to the outer hole on the T3 arms. I pioneered the Celica GTS steering arm swap back around 05 and people were having trouble finding them in yards so T3 developed theirs and set the distance for the outer hole to match the Celica arms, which was about an inch shorter then the stock mk2 ones. Without relocating the steering rack, you will have way too much angle and thus bump steer with the inner holes.

- yeah that crushed sheet metal is from people not paying attention and jacking the car up in the wrong spot, super common. There is some potential to pick up some rigidity by upgrading that piece there however.

Glad to see you are keeping the 1uz, looking at your runs you don't seem power limited at all and you have so much work into the setup you have. They really are great motors too if you can be happy with their output. Did you retune and redyno after the header conversion? A blower will certainly give you all the power you ever need. I got to race an sw20 with a 3.5 rav4 v6 swap last summer. I drove it after the swap was done years ago and it felt like the perfect power to weight ratio. Then when I raced it last summer, it had the Lotus supercharger on it and it really felt like too much power to be honest. It was a tight autox course mind you, not too many huge venus like you guys have in the Midwest. Anyways, I'm a firm believer that there is such thing as too much power when it comes to these cars and especially autox. I'm certainly not there yet, though my 6m is far from slow.

Did you do the rear camber mod when you had the subframe out? Whats your camber at the rear?

Love the subframe mod for the driveshaft! I've always planned to do the same if I ever had to go 1 piece driveshaft, I couldn't live with the alternative myself. I wouldn't say the subframe isn't structural though. Our cars are actually so flimsy in the back that people get a big bump in chassis rigidity when they go to poly bushings as the subframe actually starts to function as a chassis brace. But the way you did it is perfectly fine, I think it's probably just as strong.

Aw man, its too bad you live so far away. I've made it down for National events in Packwood WA (and raced with a few other mk2 folk from the west coast) but Kansas is serious long haul. Might make the pilgrimage one year just to cross it off the list. JCCS and SIV will happen first though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Whoa, I'm late to the party, but awesome thread!

Jeeze, sounds like you have been here awhile (2013), surprised we haven't crossed paths more, we have a very similar story and build direction with our cars. Did you ever see my build thread?


Biggest difference is I built an NA 6m. So many things to talk about after reading your entire thread this morning....

- how do you find those 245s on the street? I've been awfully tempted to move to that size as 225/50-15 is pretty much dead, I just didn't care for the huge drop in diameter.

- you said your hood dropped 16lbs, so it weighs 26lbs? Stock hood is 42lbs. I had some carbon and FB ones built back in the 2000s.

- yeah, not surprised you went back to the outer hole on the T3 arms. I pioneered the Celica GTS steering arm swap back around 05 and people were having trouble finding them in yards so T3 developed theirs and set the distance for the outer hole to match the Celica arms, which was about an inch shorter then the stock mk2 ones. Without relocating the steering rack, you will have way too much angle and thus bump steer with the inner holes.

- yeah that crushed sheet metal is from people not paying attention and jacking the car up in the wrong spot, super common. There is some potential to pick up some rigidity by upgrading that piece there however.

Glad to see you are keeping the 1uz, looking at your runs you don't seem power limited at all and you have so much work into the setup you have. They really are great motors too if you can be happy with their output. Did you retune and redyno after the header conversion? A blower will certainly give you all the power you ever need. I got to race an sw20 with a 3.5 rav4 v6 swap last summer. I drove it after the swap was done years ago and it felt like the perfect power to weight ratio. Then when I raced it last summer, it had the Lotus supercharger on it and it really felt like too much power to be honest. It was a tight autox course mind you, not too many huge venus like you guys have in the Midwest. Anyways, I'm a firm believer that there is such thing as too much power when it comes to these cars and especially autox. I'm certainly not there yet, though my 6m is far from slow.

Did you do the rear camber mod when you had the subframe out? Whats your camber at the rear?

Love the subframe mod for the driveshaft! I've always planned to do the same if I ever had to go 1 piece driveshaft, I couldn't live with the alternative myself. I wouldn't say the subframe isn't structural though. Our cars are actually so flimsy in the back that people get a big bump in chassis rigidity when they go to poly bushings as the subframe actually starts to function as a chassis brace. But the way you did it is perfectly fine, I think it's probably just as strong.

Aw man, its too bad you live so far away. I've made it down for National events in Packwood WA (and raced with a few other mk2 folk from the west coast) but Kansas is serious long haul. Might make the pilgrimage one year just to cross it off the list. JCCS and SIV will happen first though.
  • I had not seen your build thread but have now! Thanks for letting me know about it. Good information and great build!
  • I love the 245's! I have run a few autox events with them and the few track days I ran in the Supra was on the 245's. At this point I don't think I would even consider going smaller than 245 now. I would highly recommend them.
  • The more I think about it I am glad I am staying with the 1UZ. The LS swap was probably the easy button for power but probably would have run into reliability problems with the car. Being able to make all its autox runs this year and drive home helps me know my decision is the right one. Plus the fact that I get so many compliments on how well it sounds now. My thinking right now is that I will try an dpick up another motor and slowly work on a mild build of it during the 2021 season with plans to put it and the supercharger in the car for the 2022 season.
  • I have the rear camber mod parts with the plan to weld them on this offseason. Once the trans swap is done I am planning on dropping the rear subframe for this. I know it is definitely needed. I see that T3 has a Celica Supra for some R&D of new MA61 parts so I am hoping by the time I get the trans swap done they will have some adjustable control arms for an easy button.
  • I drove one of our timing trailers from here in Topeka up to Packwood back in 2012 as I was the event lead for the Packwood Tour. Ever since I have wanted to make it back. Every year it seems there is some folks from down here that make it up to race at Packwood because it is certainly one of those bucket list sites to run a National event at. SIV is high on my list to make it to. However, I can't commit to it until late due to it being during SCCA's championship season. One day though.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,626 Posts
Yes, we definitely need an aftermarket bolt in rear control arm solution. Unfortunately if T3 does it, it will likely be in the style of their complete front control arm replacement, which is very race to say the least. Which is great for dedicated race cars, but not so great for street cars.

So if you do the rear camber brackets, beware that the standard install procedure will only allow you to correct your camber for about a 1.5inch drop. I'm not sure where you're at, but you certainly run less tire diameter so you might not be as low (I'm 2.6inchs dropped). To get more adjustment, you have to push the camber bracket down further, thru the bottom of the subframe, then add some extra bracing. Last time I pushed it about 9mm past the edge as I recall, and we were able to attain a -.6 deg camber on 2.25 inch drop. I will have to go lower (this mod has been on my winter project list for at least 5 years now lol). But the next important part is, as soon as you go thru the edge of the subframe with the camber bracket, you're in the realm where there is now too much twist on the inner mount. You will eat poly bushings there, if you can even get the arm back in. So after you locate the outer brackets, you need to remove the inners and reclock them with the arm adjusted to the center position on the camber bracket.

I will have to think about those 245s more. I really think visually they are too short for the car, and I'm on the ragged edge of low as it is with my car so the extra drop would have to be compensated with raising up my suspension. But supply is what it is, I love my old 15inch wheels alright.

Sadly I'm pretty sure we've lost the Packwood venue for good, I believe the facility is being developed now. But I have to look that up again to confirm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Yes, we definitely need an aftermarket bolt in rear control arm solution. Unfortunately if T3 does it, it will likely be in the style of their complete front control arm replacement, which is very race to say the least. Which is great for dedicated race cars, but not so great for street cars.

So if you do the rear camber brackets, beware that the standard install procedure will only allow you to correct your camber for about a 1.5inch drop. I'm not sure where you're at, but you certainly run less tire diameter so you might not be as low (I'm 2.6inchs dropped). To get more adjustment, you have to push the camber bracket down further, thru the bottom of the subframe, then add some extra bracing. Last time I pushed it about 9mm past the edge as I recall, and we were able to attain a -.6 deg camber on 2.25 inch drop. I will have to go lower (this mod has been on my winter project list for at least 5 years now lol). But the next important part is, as soon as you go thru the edge of the subframe with the camber bracket, you're in the realm where there is now too much twist on the inner mount. You will eat poly bushings there, if you can even get the arm back in. So after you locate the outer brackets, you need to remove the inners and reclock them with the arm adjusted to the center position on the camber bracket.

I will have to think about those 245s more. I really think visually they are too short for the car, and I'm on the ragged edge of low as it is with my car so the extra drop would have to be compensated with raising up my suspension. But supply is what it is, I love my old 15inch wheels alright.

Sadly I'm pretty sure we've lost the Packwood venue for good, I believe the facility is being developed now. But I have to look that up again to confirm.
All the things you mention about the camber mod are why it is on the bottom of my project list. I am not that low in the rear as I am on Dobinson 300lb rear springs. I am not fully convinced the rear needs more than that and if it does the Whiteline rear bar can help with some roll stiffness.

For Packwood, last I heard was that it is still for sale (been for sale for many years). We almost lost it this year because of a possible buyer but right before the National events up there there was a problem with the sale and it became available to us again. It is still for sale and rumblings of a potential buyer. What they will do with it is unknown at this point but could mean no more for it. I think the current site managers wont rent the site to us if there is a sale pending so hopefully whenever there is a buyer they will tell them to allow us to keep going there. Major fingers crossed on that.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,626 Posts
Well its not so much about roll stiffness as traction. My car has fantastic balance with my spring and bar tuning, but I have a lot of trouble putting down power coming out of corners, which is all due to the alignment in the rear. I still have the factory bushings back there too so I have hilarious amounts of control arm movement when I race (I took video!). I think those springs you have are about a 1 inch drop, so your camber will be out if thats the case, but within the range of the standard camber bracket install. Have you measured how much you are dropped in the front in comparison? Its easy to lower the front a lot more then the rear as the wheel gaps don't match from the factory. Anyways, if you want to go lower and get that CG down even more my method would help.

Good to know about Packwood! I will look into it again when the Apocalypse is over, maybe we can synchronize some year. Don Lew made it out the year I went, he's still in the game. Another forum member did too, Sam Smiles, but I think he's fallen out of the scene. CarFreak (Mike) and his crazy v12 creation might join again too if this happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Well its not so much about roll stiffness as traction. My car has fantastic balance with my spring and bar tuning, but I have a lot of trouble putting down power coming out of corners, which is all due to the alignment in the rear. I still have the factory bushings back there too so I have hilarious amounts of control arm movement when I race (I took video!). I think those springs you have are about a 1 inch drop, so your camber will be out if thats the case, but within the range of the standard camber bracket install. Have you measured how much you are dropped in the front in comparison? Its easy to lower the front a lot more then the rear as the wheel gaps don't match from the factory. Anyways, if you want to go lower and get that CG down even more my method would help.

Good to know about Packwood! I will look into it again when the Apocalypse is over, maybe we can synchronize some year. Don Lew made it out the year I went, he's still in the game. Another forum member did too, Sam Smiles, but I think he's fallen out of the scene. CarFreak (Mike) and his crazy v12 creation might join again too if this happens.
I say rear roll stiffness because I had to make some major cuts to the wheel wells and take off the rear flares because of rubbing issues. From testing the rubbing came from hard cornering which I took as not enough rear roll stiffness. I figured it wasn't an alignment thing due to thinking when it cornered and gave it more camber it shouldn't be rubbing but now you have me thinking my approach may need to be different. I do know running at Heartland Park is hard to figure out some of it due to being on asphalt and that making it harder to generate enough heat in the tires to be at optimal to know what I really need to do. Hopefully, I can get up to Lincoln a couple of times next year to really get some testing/figuring out. I have a Whiteline rear bar sitting that I will be putting on the car to do my tuning either way.
For the front, I haven't measured what I am at but with how low the exhaust sits due to the 1UZ exhaust routing I am not as low as I would like to go. If I can get to it, another project on the list is to try and get headers figured out, as well as make an oval exhaust setup for more clearance and be able to drop the front a little bit more.
If things can make a little bit of a turn money wise I can look at getting a tow vehicle and trailer in my ownership. If that happens and Packwood happens then I will definitely do my best to bring the Supra up and run both the Tour and Pro.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,626 Posts
I'm suspecting you have alignment issues in the back because of your comments about cording tires, and also you have a mk2 lol. The stock rear springs are super soft for sure, but you want a front to rear ration of about 1.5 as the front has very different leverage. Anyways, if you are eating the insides of your rear tires, you have alignment problems. Not only does our stupid rear suspension not work at all when you lower significantly, but the factory roll curve is too aggressive IMO. The amount of camber gain we get is too much. The camber bracket mode I described actually corrects that a bit too btw.

But with the 275s you run, you will certainly have to contend with body contact as well. That little lip on the inside of the quater panel luckily is just 1 layer of steel, its not welded on the lip like a normal quater panel is, due to the sheet metal design of our flares, so you can just trim it back if you haven't already.

Another annoying issue with our rear suspension, especially once you lower, is the rear bump stumps are effectively active parts of our suspension. I put a GoPro under my car and did an autox run and was shocked to find my car was on the rear bumpstops for like half the run. You can trim a good inch or two off of the factory stop and get some clearance back, but you need enough spring rate in the back or you'll just slam into whats left of the bump stop and get a nasty suspension event. I havn't trimmed mine yet, but I did it on another car I did the rear camber mod to. That car handles like a dream, I managed to pilot it to within a second of a National Solo champ driving in someone else's sorted ST 2nd gen Miata. I'm usually off FTD by about 4 seconds at local events so I think that's the fastest I've been in a mk2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I'm suspecting you have alignment issues in the back because of your comments about cording tires, and also you have a mk2 lol. The stock rear springs are super soft for sure, but you want a front to rear ration of about 1.5 as the front has very different leverage. Anyways, if you are eating the insides of your rear tires, you have alignment problems. Not only does our stupid rear suspension not work at all when you lower significantly, but the factory roll curve is too aggressive IMO. The amount of camber gain we get is too much. The camber bracket mode I described actually corrects that a bit too btw.

But with the 275s you run, you will certainly have to contend with body contact as well. That little lip on the inside of the quater panel luckily is just 1 layer of steel, its not welded on the lip like a normal quater panel is, due to the sheet metal design of our flares, so you can just trim it back if you haven't already.

Another annoying issue with our rear suspension, especially once you lower, is the rear bump stumps are effectively active parts of our suspension. I put a GoPro under my car and did an autox run and was shocked to find my car was on the rear bumpstops for like half the run. You can trim a good inch or two off of the factory stop and get some clearance back, but you need enough spring rate in the back or you'll just slam into whats left of the bump stop and get a nasty suspension event. I havn't trimmed mine yet, but I did it on another car I did the rear camber mod to. That car handles like a dream, I managed to pilot it to within a second of a National Solo champ driving in someone else's sorted ST 2nd gen Miata. I'm usually off FTD by about 4 seconds at local events so I think that's the fastest I've been in a mk2.
For the last events I took the rear flares off and hit the lip up a little bit and was surprised at how easy it was to hit the lip. I am thinking of seeing if my uncle will make me some rear flares that are wider and also bolt to the body on the outside instead of where they do now. That way I can cut away more and have more room. I would like to experiment with the 295 hoosiers that are available but am afraid to go wider until I know I have clearance.

I put a zip tie on my rear shocks to see if I was bottoming those out. There is about 3/8" of shock travel still available with my current setup. Haven't even given it thought on where I am on the bump stop. You have given me lots to think about once I get to the rear of the car :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,626 Posts
Good to hear :) One thing I always meant to do if I was going to go wide in the back was modify front flares to fit the rear. It would be a fair bit of fiberglass work to get them just right, but the front flares are a good inch wider then the rears and obviously the style and profile match the car better then any aftermarket ones could. I know someone who did it once too, its doable.

I know people have stuck 285s on the rear before, with the perfect wheel offset and some trimming of that lip and on the flare it might be possible. Do you actually need it though? The 275s are pretty wide and a nice size. Don Lew went to 18s so he could run 285s I belive and he was running a 400+whp 1jzgte, but from last I talked to him I was getting the impression it hadn't made that big of a difference. I might remember wrong, maybe he'll chime in at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Good to hear :) One thing I always meant to do if I was going to go wide in the back was modify front flares to fit the rear. It would be a fair bit of fiberglass work to get them just right, but the front flares are a good inch wider then the rears and obviously the style and profile match the car better then any aftermarket ones could. I know someone who did it once too, its doable.

I know people have stuck 285s on the rear before, with the perfect wheel offset and some trimming of that lip and on the flare it might be possible. Do you actually need it though? The 275s are pretty wide and a nice size. Don Lew went to 18s so he could run 285s I belive and he was running a 400+whp 1jzgte, but from last I talked to him I was getting the impression it hadn't made that big of a difference. I might remember wrong, maybe he'll chime in at some point.
I know there is some debate out there now about the 275 vs 295. Some have just gone to the 295 because its wider while others have been skeptical because it needs a wider wheel and therefore needs suspension setup redo. I wouldn't mind trying them out to see. Maybe in the rear at least. Its on my list to try anyways, when and if I get to it is another debate :) .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
More update on the transmission swap. I finally got in the solid trans mount from Z1Motorsports which is a great piece. Having that allowed me to be able to make a cross member bolt everything in and remove any support holding the trans off the ground. The cross member is probably overkill but I would rather be safe than sorry. Now that it is bolted up I can now measure for a new driveshaft and start ordering the flywheel, clutch, slave cylinder, etc.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I found a fully polyurethane mount replacement that should be here later this week. Also waiting on my arm to heal from getting some new ink on it before welding on some suggested gussets on the cross member. in the meantime, I got a call from my Uncle that my fenders were done. He came over this morning to deliver them. They need a little bit of sanding and some paint but they are so pretty already. They weigh 5.8 lbs which makes them 8.2 lbs lighter per side than stock. Basically, the weight difference makes up for the added weight of the 300ZX trans but puts the weight in a better place now. The bottom part of the fenders also have some kevlar on it to make it pretty strong for when (not if) I hit a cone or ten. The flares are 2.5" wider than stock as well. While he was here he took my stock rear flares which he will just be adding some strength to them so I can modify them to for more clearance.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Just a minor update to the car. I turned 40 in November (on Friday the 13th!) and decided to buy myself a 3d printer. I am slowly learning how to use FreeCad to design some parts for the car. So far a couple of basic designs have been made for it. Fog light covers. They only save .7 lbs per side but weight off the car is weight off. Especially at the very front of a nose-heavy car. I plan on furthering this foglight cover design with a hole to duct to either the brakes or the intake. I also made a cover for the hole where the radio would be. Even figured out a way to add in the name of the car. The switch with no tag on it will eventually be for the MR2 electric power steering pump I put in (next years project).


 
21 - 40 of 63 Posts
Top