Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm not a turbo kind of guy, i was brought up being taught by my dad, if you dont ahve enough power, either build or buy bigger engine. That being said what kind of hp could be obtained from a built 5m or 6m? I would like to put 250 to the ground na. Is this possible/reliable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,114 Posts
In short, you'll spend $2,000+ to get 210 to the ground.

...250 to the ground is unreasonable, HUGE head modification, standalone, race gas all time, will result in a VERY peaky motor, 12-14mpg, and expect a short lifespan in the stock valvetrain at the lift and seat pressures required to run the RPM's you'll need.

--billyM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
I'm not a turbo kind of guy, i was brought up being taught by my dad, if you dont ahve enough power, either build or buy bigger engine. That being said what kind of hp could be obtained from a built 5m or 6m? I would like to put 250 to the ground na. Is this possible/reliable?
Your dad and I are on the same page, however this engine sadly is limited as billym explained, i'm buildin a 6m n\a myself. I will not spend 2k$ and my goal is 200hp. do lots of searching and reading. You will be amazed at how heavily this topic has been covered
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
thanks for the input. sorry this is in the wrong cat. thought i had backed out of the brake section when i posted this. What about the race prepped engines R.C. has listed?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
Go 6M, and call it a day. 190hp at the crank
more like 155 to the wheels, if its really healthy. Add the right bolt ons and you'll get 165 to the wheels, which is about 190 crank hp.

Getting 200+ to the wheels for much less then 2grand is pretty hard, if not impossible. But it costs the same as a proper stock budget 7mgte build and makes the same power so worth it imo if you're going to be happy with that power level and not want more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
Even I made a thread about this at one point haha. I get tired of people pulling up to me wanting to race thinking the car's turbo. Supra doesn't mean turbo. Not Mark 2 Supras anyways haha.

Our N/A motors are great motors, just not The Fast & The Furious if you get my drift.

I love my 5M, and only if it every dies (or I just want another project) will I yank it. Granted I sometimes want to be able to put those guys in their place with it, but hey, I can't. 7MGTEs are everywhere. If I had money to blow I just might buy a Mark 3 and yank the motor. Hell I saw one turbo car selling for $400, and the motor wasn't the reason supposedly ha.

I like reliable and that kinda makes me skeptical of turbos, but again, hey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
will changing stock compression and cam change +port and polish impact hp any? what are 5M's putting out stock (user numbers not factory specs) at rear wheels?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
697 Posts
If I remember right Tanya got damn near if not slightly over 200hp to the wheels on the dyno with her built NA 6m, I can't remember the exact numbers. And I can speak from experience, you would think that it had a turbo even though it doesn't.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
^^Pretty sure this is incorrect. BillyM said it best. If you want above 200ish whp N/A, any 12 valve M series motor is not the best choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
637 Posts
nissan/datsun L28 OR BUILT L31,32 OR EVEN L33 WILL DO THE JOB :sarcasm:
 

·
POTATO
Joined
·
17,252 Posts
will changing stock compression and cam change +port and polish impact hp any? what are 5M's putting out stock (user numbers not factory specs) at rear wheels?
132-136whp is normal for a healthy 5MGE, depending on your altitude... it could be lower and still "normal". 6MGEs generally only put out around 145/150whp stock, though I don't really recall seeing any STOCK 6M dyno sheets, they've all been modified in some way. My 6M has 10:1 compression, .030" overbore and bolt ons and puts out 165whp (tho I'm thinking more 170 right now since I cleaned the gas tank).... and 188ft/lbs. Those may seem like pretty fail numbers but anyone who has ever rode in my car that knows about mk2s says it feels more like 180whp, so who knows. It's a damn fun ride. Someone here has made a 167whp car (albeit gutted) run a 14.0 flat in the 1/4 mile.


The trick to a fast N/A car is sacrificing luxuries. If you want a 14 second car, do the basic bolt ons (intake, header, exhaust) on a FRESH 5M/6M, with maybe a slightly higher compression ratio and start dumping crap off the car you can live without.

But still, the fastest way to 200whp = 8psi of boost :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,114 Posts
Cams + HEAVY headwork/OS valves would put Tanya's motor at ~200hp at the wheels (right at redline). ...but you're bumping a motor to 50% more power than it was intended to make (enter, reliability issues).

...but again, you're looking at the following (bare-minimum prices):
Buy 6m - $700
Bore/Balance 6m - $400
Big-ol Cams - $400
Head Worked - $400+
Intake/Exh - $600

If you're considering all the effort of a NA motor, take a ride or drive a turbo mk2 first...

-billyM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,930 Posts
Wont some sort of engine management (piggy back or something) be required to run even an NA engine with that much head/cam work??
what about adjustable cam gears, to tune in the most power wouldnt you want those as well.
also with boring it out will it be bored big enough that bigger pistons are required or can you just do it with bigger rings?
Whats the cost for OS valves??

Just with the prices that Billym listed up their, not including all the small stuff (gaskets, silicone, Its gonna cost u more than it cost me to build my 5mgte.

Im not bashing NA motors at all, just saying getting the numbers out of a NA 5mge that most people want is gonna cost much to much and their are easier, cheaper ways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
683 Posts
I would also look into the NA 7M's. Should be a lot easier to find & probily little cheaper then the 6M. But then there is wiring you'll have to tackle.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
will changing stock compression and cam change +port and polish impact hp any? what are 5M's putting out stock (user numbers not factory specs) at rear wheels?
yes, it will impact the hp but the trick to making decent power with these motors is getting rid of all the bottlenecks. Which are, in order of greatest to least, the flapper AFM, the stock TB and the stock cams. Fixing those first two is alot of work, but 100 percent necesary if you want to cross the 200rwhp mark. Screw that, make that the 180rwhp mark. I know of one 5m with cams, bolt ons, possibly extra compression and dyno tuning that did 185, and another with stock cams, all the bolt ons and a 70mm TB that hit 180. Hopefully I'll be crossing the 200 mark myself in the very near future.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
There is wiring either way. Even with Billy's list there I don't see it happening on the stock unmodified intake manifold and TB, and definitly not with the stock AFM.
 

·
POTATO
Joined
·
17,252 Posts
Cams + HEAVY headwork/OS valves would put Tanya's motor at ~200hp at the wheels (right at redline). ...but you're bumping a motor to 50% more power than it was intended to make (enter, reliability issues).

...but again, you're looking at the following (bare-minimum prices):
Buy 6m - $700
Bore/Balance 6m - $400
Big-ol Cams - $400
Head Worked - $400+
Intake/Exh - $600

If you're considering all the effort of a NA motor, take a ride or drive a turbo mk2 first...

-billyM


it cost me $776 in machine work alone for the bore, balance, rod resizing, rod bushing install, flywheel resurfacing, head milling, valve job.



I would also look into the NA 7M's. Should be a lot easier to find & probily little cheaper then the 6M. But then there is wiring you'll have to tackle.

Finding 7M blocks are easy. Finding 5M heads and pistons are easy. Just got to piece together a 6M yourself and you can make it a lot cheaper than the going rate for an imported one, except you have to deal with the crank pulley issue. Even decently modified 7Ms are only pushing out around 165whp, I know of a few 200whp 7ms but the owners have put thousands of dollars into them, so they're hardly any better IMO.

There is wiring either way. Even with Billy's list there I don't see it happening on the stock unmodified intake manifold and TB, and definitly not with the stock AFM.
werd.

Sean Chung's 6M (which has mods very similar to my own minus headwork) pushed out a very nice 189whp on a stand alone.
http://forums.celicasupra.com/showpost.php?p=561943&postcount=42
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top