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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted a message a week or so ago about a bad engine vibration at about 1200-1300 rpm, that came about after a rebuilt tranny had been installed in my '85 5M-GE (manual trans). During this work, I also had dealer install new clutch, pressure plate, timing belt, and front oil seal. Just before the tranny went out (after 353,000 trouble-free miles) I had done a complete tune-up: plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, oxy sensor. Engine ran great, no problems at all. Even after tranny started going south, the engine was still running great. NO vibrations anywhere at all. Still getting well over 300 miles per tankful of gas like always. Engine never been opened. Timing belts most 'serious' engine work ever done.

But after I picked the car up after this latest tranny work, there is this vibration as mentioned. I noticed when I got the car home (trying to find reason for vibration) that part of the crankshaft pulley was cracked off. Responses to my earlier message said that might could cause vibration, but others stated they had the same cracked pulley with no vibration. Vibration is most notable with clutch depressed sitting still at about 1200-1300 rpm. Dealer also rechecked timing (my concern) but their 'master mech' re-installed another new timing belt and thouroughly rechecked timing and it is good. They also rechecked the clutch and pressure plate for proper alignment and it is good. So we are stumped.

Someone suggested that maybe a valve problem, but exactly how? Burnt? Stuck?? I don't know.

Any suggestions anyone has would be greatly appreciated. We are about out of things to check here.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 

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Sounds like it could be the clutch cover or clutch disc. They maybe defective somehow. Seeing how these were replaced. Also you say it does it worse when the clutch is depressed. I'd take it back to them and let them find the problem. But if I have to do it myself. I'd 1st take a look at that clutch. The car can be cranked without the tranny and clutch. Take both of those out. Crank it up. And see if the vibration is still there. If it's not then you know where the problem lies. If it is still there. Then it's somewhere in the engine. Did they check the crank for movement. Could be the thrust bearing is bad. I'm just giving you some possiblities. But you need to isolate the vibration 1st. Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, as I mentioned above, the clutch and pressure plate were removed and replaced AGAIN just to be sure and still we have the vibration. Car is still at the dealer and they are continuing to look it over, but we just can't seem to nail this vibration down.

How about injectors? Anyone run into this problem from dirty/bad injectors? Fuel pump?? Fuel filter???
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ANY suggestions anyone can make here? ANYTHING that might remotely help would be appreciated! Dealer STILL has not gotten a handle on this.

Thanks a bunch!!
 

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Could be the pilot bearing, or they did not get the pressure plate square on the flywheel. It may be the pulley, but not likely from your description.

The tranny input shaft might be bent also.

The pilot bearing or input shaft could have been bad or damaged on install.

Sounds more like a pressure plate problem though. I guess the throwout bearing coud be off it's perch also.

I think they have to yank it apart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, they've (re) re-installed a new clutch and pressure plate on the chance the first new ones (when they re-installed the transmission after it's rebuild) were bad. Same vibration still there.

Let me ask this: Like I said, vibration is there in neutral with clutch engaged OR with the pedal pressed to floor; makes no difference. My question is, when you disengage the clutch (press to the floor) are you TOTALLY disengaged from the transmission COMPLETEY? In other words, once you press that clutch pedal down, is there ANY connection between the running engine and the tranny (other than where the bellhousing bolts to the back of the engine, of course)? I have assumed that with the clutch pressed in, there is no connection at all, but if there is, then if something is bad in the re-built transmission (they didn't rebuild the tranny; they was done through Jeff Watson in Texas, and actually we just junked my old transmission and his guys got another one and rebuilt that for me), then that could be the problem. The tranny is about the only thing that has not been 're-re-replaced' since this work started on this repair.

Thanks for all your replies; we'll get it nailed down eventually.
 

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The output shaft from the tranny is connected, in that it rides in the end of the crankshaft pilot bearing. If that input shaft was bent or the pilot bearing was bad or missing, I would guess it might vibrate. There is a hole in the end of the crankshaft where the pilot bearing is located.

It might be that vibration is due to something else, like a bad injector or spark plug wire. You might want to start by checking the condition of the spark plugs and doing a compression test to eliminate that as a possibility.

Motor mounts could be broken also.

And yes, by all means have them replace that pulley.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So, what you are saying then is that the input shaft 'stays engaged' with the clutch/pressure plate assembly at ALL times? It is still turning then, even with the clutch pedal pressed flat to the floor?? If so, that could very well be it.

Even though the engine has 353,000 miles on it and I know the rings (factory) have never been changed, there was ABSOLUTELY no problem with the engine when I took it in with the transmission problem. I had just done my normal engine tune up (plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor and even ox sensor this time) about a month before the tranny went out. Engine was smooth as it has always been the 18 years I've had the car. I still get about 320-330 miles out of a tank of gas on this car. Still will break 110+ in a skinny minute (not that I do *that* too very often these days). Bottom line, the car was running great when I took her in to have the tranny looked at. And as it turned out, the transmission was about shot (trip to Atlanta and back with low tran oil; had no choice but to drive her back in that condition, which burnt the factory tranny up, but after 353,000 miles on that one transmission without ANY problems ever, I figured I'd gotten my money's worth out of it), but even with a 'shot' transmission, the car still ran smooth, shifted pretty easily, and had NONE of this vibration that we have now. Absolutely NONE. So, I can't help but believe this vibration came in as a result of the work that was performed on the car, but they just can't seem to nail down exactly what it is.

But if you are indeed saying that the input shaft is engaged in the clutch/pressure plate assy EVEN when the clutch pedal is depressed, then there could be a problem with that rebuilt tranny. As I said, that is about the only thing that has not been re-re-replaced.
 

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No the input shaft is not "engaged/spinning" with the clutch pushed in. It is not moving, but the crankshaft is spinning. The pilot bearing is what is between the spinning crank and the non-spinning input shaft. The pilot bearing stops spinning once you have let out the clutch, then the input shaft and crankshaft are turning at the same speed and are mechanically hooked up by the clutch disc.

The pilot bearing is only about the size of a quarter, it may have been damaged if they had trouble getting the tranny in.

Like I said, it is only a theory. It could be several other things wrong, some not related to the clutch at all.

Odds are though, it is related to the clutch R+R.

Get them to replace the damaged pulley first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, thanks. Looking at my Haines manual, I couldn't really tell from their photos/description if the two were TOTALLY disengaged when the clutch was pressed or not, but I figured they probably were. Just wanted to make sure, as I was hoping that maybe this would all come down to a bum tranny rebuild and we could go from there. But this vibration, that kicks in right at about 1250-1300 rpm, is noticeable in neutral with the clutch in OR out. I can only think that it has something to do with the clutch/tranny work myself too, because the car was running great (other than tranny) when I took it in.

On the crank pulley though, several folks reported to me that they have the same damage to their pulley with no engine vibration. So....I don't know what it could be, and apparently the dealer is pretty stumped too. I *guess* something could have gone 'bad' while the car sat there - uncranked - for nearly six weeks while they were doing other work/waiting for the tranny rebuild to come back from Jeff Watson and Co., but I find that hard to believe. This is not the first time I've had less that stellar service from a Toyota dealer. About six years ago I took this same '85 to the other local dealer (who had historically give very good service) to have a heater core replaced, and they kept the car a month and dang near destroyed my interior (knobs missing, leather torn, gouges in the glove compartment door, heat STILL did not work, and A/C, which had been fine, was DEVOID of any freon!). They eventually made it all good, but that took ANOTHER month. So, I don't go to dealers for ANY work any more unless it is my last resort and dropping a tranmission is just something I can't do here at home. After this latest experience however, I WILL find some alternative to going to a Toyota dealer for service. Great cars, but their service departments seem like they try to do anything they can to ruin your vehicle for you.

Anyway, thanks for the tips. I'll post whatever it is we eventually find and let you all know.
 

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If it still vibrates with the clutch pushed in its not the transmission. There should be nothing rotating in the tranny with the clutch pushed in (otherwise your car is going to be moving). As has been said a hundred times before replace the pulley! It shouldn't cost more than $40 used for a replacement and will take less than a hour to replace. With a chunk missing from it it is not balanced. Its probably in a resonant freq. at that RPM. Unless the person doing the work was an idiot I doubt the clutch is the problem. You'd either have to have a unbalanced flywheel and/or pressure plate or possibly some missing bolts, which seem unlikely if they've been done it twice. I'd highly doubt its the pilot bearing myself, especially if its new.
 

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send out the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate for balancing, replace pully with chunk out.
If this doesn't cure it examine rest of rotating assembly, i.e. the crank, rods, pistons(might just drop pan to see if their is any evidence of problem)
Question for those who are more Toyota oriented than I , could oil pump shaft or pump itself cause a problem like this if worn?? I was just runing over all the rotating items in the motor and wondering
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Dave A. said:
Does the clutch chatter when you engage the clutch?
No, actually the clutch operation and rebuilt transmission 'feel' good: shifts smooth, no chatter or noise. My previous clutch had 200,000 miles on it, so regardless of the tranny work, it was time for a new one anyway. But from what I can tell in the 30 minutes I drove the car after I picked up from having this work done till I took it back because of this vibration, that all sounded and felt good. There was just this vibration that kicked in at about 1200-1300 rmp that was pretty noticeable both sitting still and moving down the road. In fact, we are not completely sure at this point whether the engine vibration is the only problem; we suspect there may be other issues cause the 'rolling' vibration (around 45-50mph), but we (they) won't know that till they get the engine problem straightened out, whatever (and whenever) THAT turns out to be. Eight weeks and counting at this point......It's always nice to spend tons of money having repairs done, only to get your vehicle back with more problems than you started out with!
 
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