[CST]

is there any way I could hit 200bhp in my mk2 supra without changing the engine or adding a turbo to it? And something that would be safe and not too pricey.

 

[CRF_Rider]

As the saying goes... Ya gotta pay to play.

http://www.celicasupra.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110

There are 4 pages of info in that thread.

HTH.

 

[suprathepeg]

I have researched this for the last couple years (haven't had the cash to do anything) and here is what I have found. For what you are going to spend getting a 5m anywhere near 200rwhp you will need to invest some healthy amounts of $$$. In the end you will have a built 5m that puts some good power to the ground but you will sacrafice dependability.

THe best way to gain consistantly high levels of HP for the Mk2 is to swap in a 7MGTE. If you find a somewhat solid engine you can drop it right in and have the whole project done for about $2000-$3000. From what I know the 7M is an extreamly well built motor, it truely is the best of the M series.

Like he said you have to pay to play. But if you are smart about it you won't have to pay too much.

plus the 7M is a great platform for a 400rwhp mk2. THe key is dependability and the 7m seems to give that.

 

[CST]

I could buy a used 7mge for about $700.. you guys have any estimates on the cost to transplant the engine?

 

[zank]

I would say go with a 6MGE with I/H/E and maybe some laughing gas :wink: . Thats not too pricy. If you go with a 7MGE you might as well get the 7MGTE.

 

[pdupler]

7m-ge is not worth it considering your other option - 6m-ge. It would be a wiring nightmare vs. the 6m which is plug-n-play. Only 10hp difference between them and that could be made up with intake and header. You are not going to break 200rwhp tho without machine work and considerable mods on either engine and that sacrifices driveability. One of our members just bought a 6m and paid a shop to install it, cost about $1200 US altogether which was a pretty good deal. If you go with the 6m, spend about $250-300 more and replace all the gaskets and seals before install.

Phil D.

 

[sloopercat]

Having been through this exercise myself. I bit the bullet and went with a 7MGTE. The only reasonable way to get that kind of power out of a 5M is to put a low pressure turbo on it. Just keep the boost low and you will be OK, along with a metal head gasket.

Laughing gas is another way to go for cheap HP.

Staying NA and getting 200HP is expensive, with not as much to gain as the turbo add.

I have a complete P+P shaved head, new valves, guides, 3 angle job, new stock cams, lifters, rockers and AEM gears I will sell you. I will also throw in a set of Gude cams and towers.

All for $600+ shipping.

 

[SupraFiend]

you can come pretty close to 200 crank hp with out tooooo much problem or expense, but rwhp is another matter. Once you get pretty close to that though it gets pretty fun, you really don't need that much power for these cars.

 

[sloopercat]

You know what they say "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". With 300HP, these cars are a gas to drive. You can do that with factory type reliability too. Very minor mods to the 7MGTE turbo will get you there.

:hitit:

 

[dohc82]

7M is an extreamly well built motor, it truely is the best of the M series..

:?: I always heard the 7m has HG issues and the 5m is the cream of the crop. There are alot more 250,000km 5ms than 7ms still running smooth

 

[suprathepeg]

Well I think it all comes down to how you use it. There are a lof of 7MGEs with a ton of miles on them but yes 7MGTEs do eat head gaskets if driven hard. However if you install a metal HG then it should be as dependable if not better the the 5M. Keep in mind that the 7MGTE makes olmost twice the amount of power your 82 5M does. The 7M block has some substantial advancements in metalurgy and oil delivery as well.

 

[dohc82]

I am aware of the power differences between the two engines. He asked about building a 5m not swapping a 7m.
The 85 5m produces 165 at the crank. This means that it needs 65 hp to make 200 rear wheel (230hp minus 15% for driveline loss=200Rwhp) :twisted: I dont think he will have to compromise reliability very much to achive this. And a metal HG is a couple hundred US. Each time you blow it. :roll:
I know it will cost some money but it will still be less than the cost of a 7m and all the pieces plus the custom bits to make it fit plus the rebuild of the engine to replace gaskets and seals plus the metal HG. :shock:
I have been thinking about this for several years also and although the 7m would be nice it isnt always realistic. :wink:

 

[suprathepeg]

Here is my philosophy combined with my experiance:

I know that I asked the same questions when I first baught my sup; how do I get 200rwhp from the 5m? So I began to do my research and learn about the mk2.
I found that there were quite a few options available from new internals to 6/7m swaps. I also found that almost everyone who undertakes upgrading their engine develops a habit of wanting more power. I also found that those people who continually upgraded their 5m motors were hitting limits of power vs dependability at about 200hp and were spending considerable amounts of cash when all was said and done.
I looked at the cost of swapping the 7M vs the cost of an upgraded 5m and the 5Ms were getting as high if not higher without meeting the reliability of the 7MGTE.
So I surmised that if I am going to upgrade my Sup then I am going to do it right $3000-$4000 complete will get you a solid 7M installed as long as you take time to find the right engine etc., in some cases it has even come out costing less.
I think that once you get to 200rwhp you will be happily leaving mustangs in your dust but you will still want to slap that guy with the 97 Camaro. IF you want real power and a solid platform from which to build a very fast car thent he 7M is by far the cheepest and most reliable way to go. As well there is still a lot of aftermarket support for the 7MGTE as there are a lot of Mk3 guys around.
If you are going to open up that hood then DO IT RIGHT. :wink:
That is IMHO.

 

[dohc82]

Of course you cant just "drop" a turbo engine into a 18+ year old car. First you have to make sure the brakes and suspension can handle 240 boosted hp. Turbos put alot of stress on the cars structure. Most mk2s need some rust repair and suspension and brake upgrades before the engine transplant. Thats additional cost.
With a 200hp 5m I would be less worried about these things. I would still upgrade brake pads and shocks but I wouldnt worry about my diff, driveshaft etc. So again-less cost.

 

[williamb82]

well, with the right mods on a 7mgte at 10psi it will be ~230-250rwhp and the stock headgasket will hold it if retourqed to 75lbs/ft. also, if you have the machine work done right and use a mhg and arp studs tqed properly it will hold whatever you want. the mhg on my 7m has be reused about 5 times and still no problems. if it can be reused that many times then the first time its clamped down should never have problems. there are lots of 500+rwhp mkiii's running mhg's with no problems at all. if a mhg blows it was because the block or head wasnt machined properly, or it wasnt put together and tqed properly.
william

 

[dohc82]

well, with the right mods on a 7mgte at 10psi it will be ~230-250rwhp and the stock headgasket will hold it if retourqed to 75lbs/ft. also, if you have the machine work done right and use a mhg and arp studs tqed properly it will hold whatever you want. the mhg on my 7m has be reused about 5 times and still no problems. if it can be reused that many times then the first time its clamped down should never have problems. there are lots of 500+rwhp mkiii's running mhg's with no problems at all. if a mhg blows it was because the block or head wasnt machined properly, or it wasnt put together and tqed properly.
william

All true and I hope to experience it for myself one day But his question was how to make the power with out swapping engines.

 

[82Spearco]

There is only 1 person that I know of that has achieve 200+ rwhp with an N/A 5m or 6m, and that is Vern from Atlanta with his 6m.

However, you can turbo your 5m like Mark (CRF_Rider), who is laying down 270+rwhp at only 11 psi on his 5m turbo. Now that is something to shoot for....and no engine swap involved.

 

[Digilog]

THe best way to gain consistantly high levels of HP for the Mk2 is to swap in a 7MGTE. If you find a somewhat solid engine you can drop it right in and have the whole project done for about $2000-$3000. From what I know the 7M is an extreamly well built motor, it truely is the best of the M series.

Ok I don't want to sound like a 7M hater but it is not the best of the M Series, not by a long shot a 5M or 6M is much closer to that statement here is why (My opinon based on alot of experiance and observation)

1.) 7M-GTE motor is notorious for blowing Head gaskets, this can be resolved by replacing the head gasket with a MHG (not cheap especially factored into your new JDM motor price but much easyier to do before you put the motor in the car and it eventually blows) The reason for HG blowing so easily is the rediculously small bore spacing of the 5-7M motors, due to displacement increases over the years.

2.) 7M-GTE is notorious for overheating, why becuase it still uses the same coolling passages designed for a non turbo engine, The intercooler piping travels right over the turbo on its way into the intake... , and the intercooler has a 4psi preasure drop accross and is also quite prone to heatsoak. Some of the coolant lines that eventually break due to rapid heating and cooling (side effect of turbo engine) are almost impossible to reach with the motor in the car.

3.) Oil starvation, again something the 7M-GTE is famous for. This usually leads to rod knock and the replacement of the crank and new bearings not a fun job. Oil starvation occurs more often (but certainly not exclusivly) in cars with rebuilt motors, usually attributed to shaved head or block lowering the ablility of the tesnsioner to propourly pickup the slack on the timing belt and it "skips" across the oil pump gear not turning it at a propour rate of speed.

A freind of mine now has rod knock for the third time on his 7M-GTE, this was with a replaced, Block, Crank and rebuilt head, new timing belt etc.

Also as a member of the Toronto Supra Club I see alot of MKIII's (The club is jokingly referd to as the MKIII club due to there sheer numbers). The reliablity of the car/motor becomes obvious as cars that are absent from the meet but owners there collecting information on his motor job or replacement. There are a few cars that consistanly arrive to the meets and work reliably, these cars have had rediculous amounts of money thrown at them, and then are not driven over 4500rpm.


Just to illustrate my point, my friend (mentioned earlier) and I are not mechanics but we can now remove the entire 7M-GTE
engine and transmission in only 3hrs.... I now regularly hear the reliability of the 7M compared to that of a 13B.

For both cost effectiveness and reliablility I would highly recomend a 6M motor, they pull hard, run well and don't suffer the issues as the 7M due to lack of boost. Put a header on it, some exhaust, and maybe those TRD cams mentioned in this forum and you'll be in the 14's at the track. if you don't want to do a motor swap clould also performe the same mods to a 5M and get respectable power.

6M's sell for around $4-500CDN in southern ontario and I imagine are readily availible in the states.

And hey what makes a sweeter sound than an NA MKII?

Carl

 

[suprathepeg]

Hmm.. you may be right but I think that you are compairing apples to oranges. In order to make the same amounts of power you will likely find that a 5m or 6m will have the same or simular problems. but hey we all have our opinion and that is mine.

Sean