Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I have an '81 celica 5sp which has been gathering dust for 5 years. Although its bone stock, its a bit of a sentimental car and I'm going to get it moved overseas to where I am.

I haven't seen it in a while but from memory its an 18r motor and I'm guessing a w50 tranny being a 5sp. Since I've heard the trannies are bullet proof, I was hoping for more horsepower though. I'm currently dreaming of putting a 2jz motor in but I wanted to know if this has been done before? Are there any other motors which will mate to the w50 easily without too much modding? I'm assuming there will need to be engine compartment work however I don't want to get in way over my head.

Are there any good options to see a noticeable boost in performance with the 18r motor? The current motor although running (atleast it was when I parked it), was using lead replacement petrol so some work would have to be done to switch that over to unleaded. Since its going to have to be opened up no matter what, is there anything others have done to increase hp?

The vehicle will not be a daily driver but a long term project car. Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
the W50 was put in the first gen supra with ~145ft.-lb. torque. that's more than a 4 banger but a lot less than a 2jz.
the W58 was put in cars with horsepower and torque around the 200 mark. the W58 is nearly identical to the W50.

I have heard that these two W series transmissions can take 400ft.-lb. of torque if driven with care.

EDIT: I was in NZ a couple years ago(BEAUTIFUL place). and I saw a few first and second gen corollas in great condition. I don't remember seeing any celicas, but I'm sure you could pick one up there for cheaper than shipping overseas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for that. The car is currently in Australia and a lot of guys there are mating this tranny to v8's for racing. Figured it could probably handle 300hp since they are pushing it past that point. 200hp was the minimum I wanted out of this car when its all said and done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've only seen one 2nd gen for sale in NZ. It is most definately much much cheaper to try and find one here than bring mine over from aussie. The wife suggested the same thing. However, MY car is in Aus and any other just wouldn't be the same. ;) So I'm going to spend way more money than the car is worth bringing it over but since its a keeper, I'm ok spending the money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
It all comes down to driving habits. You can break anything if you try. You can be easy yet still drive with speed and save parts. I have seen combos that should never last but the owner knows how to drive and they stay together. One good thing about a W58 is it weighs less that the 50. The MK3 W58 shifter location is more suited for an MK1 Supra or 78-81 Celica. Go to the MK1 section and read all you can search. Many things will help you out even with a Celica.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm not terribly concerned with the longevity of the transmission. I'm more interested in what engine I can mate it to. My '81 is a 2nd generation Celica by the way.

Any suggestions based on what others have done?
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
3,283 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
The w50 and w58 *can* be mated to the 1JZ and the 2JZ without much trouble at all.

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=21987
Actually, that is incorrect. The W50 is not the same as the W55/56/57/58/59 series transmissions in bell housing bolt pattern. The RA4# Celica in 81 should have had a W55 transmission, not the W50. Easy identifier is the transmission case. W50 has cast steel transmission case with aluminum tail shaft and bell housing. W55/56/57/58/59 transmissions have aluminum cases and housings. The bolt patterns between the W50 and the others is different as well...meaning that the JZ W58 bell housing will not bolt to the W50. Just a heads up.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
3,283 Posts
Thanks for the info Mark. I was misinformed.

Could you tell us what each of the w5x trannys come in?

I'm mostly curious about the w59 though



Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
well i learned a few things today ha!! good stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Actually, that is incorrect. The W50 is not the same as the W55/56/57/58/59 series transmissions in bell housing bolt pattern. The RA4# Celica in 81 should have had a W55 transmission, not the W50. Easy identifier is the transmission case. W50 has cast steel transmission case with aluminum tail shaft and bell housing. W55/56/57/58/59 transmissions have aluminum cases and housings. The bolt patterns between the W50 and the others is different as well...meaning that the JZ W58 bell housing will not bolt to the W50. Just a heads up.
Sadly the car is a few thousand km's away so can't check the numbers. Is there much of a difference between the w50 and w55 other than the case/housing? Same bolt pattern?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
Thanks for the info Mark. I was misinformed.

Could you tell us what each of the w5x trannys come in?

I'm mostly curious about the w59 though



Mike
W55 - RA4 Celica/MA4 Supra/Tacoma 2wd
W56 - RN6 Truck 4x4
W57 - Don't remember...we didn't get em here
W58 - RA6/MA6, MA7, JZA8
W59 comes in Tacoma 4x4...not really geared well for cars lol

Sadly the car is a few thousand km's away so can't check the numbers. Is there much of a difference between the w50 and w55 other than the case/housing? Same bolt pattern?
No...the only bolt pattern that is the same would be the bellhousing/engine pattern. If putting a JZ engine in a early car, you need a trans that accepts a JZ bellhousing (either R154 or W55/56/57/58/59). W50 is the red headed step child...very tough so it can take a beating from the bratty natural born siblings. LOL! Great trans...but really only useful in the 1st and 2nd gen Celicas (and 2wd trucks) running R series engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for that. Assuming I have a w50 (which is sounding unlikely), and I'm stuck with my 18R engine. What mods can be done to it to get it above the 200hp mark with some reliability? I don't believe it has the Yamaha head on it so sourcing one would probably be a good start (anyone have an extra? :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
18RG (the Yamaha Twin-Cam headed engine) are far more common in AUS than in the states. That's where I'd start a search for one. Great engine for a Celica and would bolt up to W50 perfect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Is the head the only difference between the 18R and 18R-G? Are the blocks the same? I can buy an 18R engine here for about 80USD and simply put the new head on it once I bring the car over from Aus. I can kill some time rebuilding the engine internals to handle some more hp while waiting for the car. Easier to bring a head over with the car as opposed to a whole other engine too. Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Does anyone know of a quality source for aftermarket parts for 18R series engines? Camshafts etc etc. Shipping is a long and expensive task over here so returning parts is difficult.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
You will not find performance parts for an 18R, anywhere. This is partly because they're a POS engine from a performance perspective. Tough as nails, go forever, but don't have much else to recommend them.

The 18R-G is a different story, fun little 70's era performance engine but still no powerhouse by today's standards. You can get performance bits for them but they're mostly second-hand and not always easy to find. And to answer your earlier question, the 18R and 18R-G share a lot of major bottom-end components but there are enough differences between them that you have no chance of converting an 18R to an 18R-G unless you have a complete 18R-G to begin with. It's definitely not a case of just swapping heads.

Also to clarify about transmissions, the alloy case W55/57/58 was introduced with the RA60 Celica and MA61 Supra. Anything earlier than that (including your RA40) will have a steel case W50. In fact anything which was an 18R will almost certainly have a W40/W50 box behind it. If you have any plans for an engine swap figure on a transmission swap at the same time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I've never done any performance mods to an engine but I have the time to play. That being said, I'm not sure what can and can not be done to an engine.

I have spoken to a racer friend about the 18R and w50. Apparently they were popular here for adding a rotary to it since the mazda trannys were rubbish. With the engine he mentioned the yamaha head and porting the head. Also mentioned adding a weber carb and switching camshafts. Assuming I stick with the standard 18r engine. Would porting the original head, new cam, pistons, carb, etc etc be expected to result in 200hp plus? An 18R-G engine would be great but they are hard to come by here. Basically I would like to know what I can push that engine to with available things like porting, carb etc etc? Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
A genuine 100hp/L is difficult to achieve even with an 18R-G and would require deep pockets. Getting the same result from an 18R would mean custom-made everything (read: outrageously expensive) and it would essentially be a full-house race motor which is impossible to drive on the street. Not to mention it would owe you upwards of $10k.

I think you need to set some more realistic goals before proceeding any further. And I'm not joking when I say this, abandon any notion of using an 18R for anything beyond basic transportation. A dollar spent on such a lump is a dollar wasted. Take it from someone who has made some regrettable decisions in his youth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That's the type of response I'm looking for. I don't know enough about these motors so learning from others mistakes is financially sound ;)

I originally asked about the 2jz as a drop in but I'm not looking for monster horsepower, just fun horsepower. I want a motor/tranny combo that requires the least amount of modification possible with respect to the engine bay but at the same time, a reasonable amount of parts available to keep it going. Anything in particular I should look at? Not sure how many ra40 have been done up, can't imagine there's been a lot. Either way, I have no history with toyota drivetrains. I drive a volvo 850 as my DD. ;)
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top