Toyota Celica Supra Forum banner

181 - 193 of 193 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,395 Posts
lol.

Thats an interesting option, I'm guessing the case is alot larger like the 82\83 alts? Thats one concern I have with the newer alts that use the same basic design as the later mk2 ones. Getting more power out of the same space seems like the alt would have to deal with more heat and reliablity would suffer. None the mk2\mk3 alternators are terriably robust as is, and I've killed a camry alternator already too. Something that was built to make that much power out of the box instead of having the guts upgraded year after year to put out more power seems like a better way to go (if you don't mind a little extra bulk and weight).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,312 Posts
27060-20010 is for a 91-96 Camry or ES300.

I've been thinking that we could actually use the front and rear case from a 5M alternator and simply put in the parts from another ND alt that uses the same internal fan setup. I know for a fact that the Voltage Regulator, brushes and Rectifier are interchangeable, as I swapped those parts from a 7M-GTE alt into my Cressida's as two of the diodes in the rectifier failed. All that is left is the rotor and stator. So I think there is a chance that any ND Alt that uses the same plug on the back, has the internal fan and has the same outer diameter could work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
Yes, the case is a bit larger than our stock alternators. The offset mounting ears definitely helped it fit into nearly the same space as the stock one does though. I'm sure I removed it from an LS 400 although I did read the pn from it as installed from below with a mirror so it's quite possible I got a number wrong. Would everything else fit as described? If the pn is correct, could this be fit on a late 80's / early 90's LS 400? I just want to know exactly what it is. Also, I totally agree that installing higher output components in any sized case can be asking for trouble but I'll qualify that. Newer components can be redesigned to be somewhat more efficient and therefore not cause significantly more heat but only within reasonable limits. I would define reasonable here as 5 to at most 15 peak amps more in the same sized case. The heat generated is relative to current squared meaning that the increase in heat becomes much more problematic as specs are pushed more than a little and this will translate into much shorter life before major failure if indeed you're pulling much more amperage than stock. It's not uncommon for rebuilders to advertise as much as double the current replacement parts or nearly so. If you really need significantly more current, stay away from these. In some cases, newer cars have liquid cooled alternators to save weight and keep reasonable reliability. One thing that's changed from much older high output alternators (police cars, etc. from the 60's and 70's) is newer ones also tend to have higher output at low speeds which helps everything, especially lights dimming at idle. Older high output alternators were absolutely huge, weighed a ton and at idle, actually had less useful output than stock. I also agree that ND parts are very high quality and turning one in for its core value on a POS rebuild from most parts stores is just wrong. I often ask people that buy these POS parts what their free lifetime warranty costs them in time and frustration every few months. You'd all be surprised at the responses. Some get it but most have no idea what they've bought into even when it's pointed out that their original part lasted many years and the replacements much, much less. It used to be easy to repair starters, alternators, etc. as most parts stores stocked individual parts as well as complete units. Not so anymore. In many cases, most of these parts are only available to rebuilders. I have ordered some of these parts online but recently found that my local Napa store could get them as well if, I provided the part numbers. Do a google search for ND parts. I'll also pass along a useful bit of technical info on belt tension. I installed a high power stereo in my 85p when it was new and within a few months, had the front alternator bearing fail. I originally thought that the added current draw likely had caused the problem but it was actually that the factory belt tension was way too high as it lasted another 25 years without failing until the slip rings on the rotor wore out to the point that replacing the brushes wouldn't have helped. Does anyone think that revving the engine well past red line a bajillion times might have contributed to the problem? Just kidding! This is also why I considered the slightly larger pulley on the replacement a good thing. Note that these parts are available as well but slip ring replacement is not for the faint of heart. Anyway, what most people don't understand is that these belts are absolutely stable and that the metal parts expand and contract with temperature. Ask anyone that worked on Harley's when they changed to belt drive how many belts broke when the bike heated up before they adjusted to a different procedure from chain drive whether or not they new why! So I find that the best test of belt tension is just enough to prevent slip which will be more likely the colder it gets. If it slips when it's cold, a very slight increase in tension is indicated. Keep in mind about too much tension causing bearing failure though. It is possible to have a very small amount of slip without any noticeable noise so look for a very shiny belt. Used belts will be smoother and not as dull as new but definitely not shiny. In most cases, these ND alternators only need brush replacement about every 150k miles to remain serviceable. The other major cause of failure is improper jump starting causing failure of one or more of the diodes in the diode trio. I won't bother to go into details here but just mention that it's not a coincidence that alternators fail after jump starting. I'll second what others have said about clean connections, checking for corroded cables and that verifying grounds is extremely important. I always increase the size of the body grounds when electrical needs increase. It's important to know where every ground is as well so access to a TSRM is a must. Many folks have electrical gremlins that do not seem electrically related but can be solved by cleaning and / or upgrading a particular ground. Note that many newer vehicles use anodized connection parts (bolts, washers, etc.) and the connection point as well and that these connections should never require cleaning. They are anodized to prevent corrosion. They should be very tight though and if adding electrical loads, it's best to leave these connections alone and add one elsewhere if possible. I have replaced these bolts with a similarly anodized part that I'd call a stud bolt, i.e., like a bolt with a stud welded on top and added connections at the same place if any other option was really a pain. I'll emphasize here that if adding high power stereo stuff for example, keeping its connections separate makes them easy to check while leaving the others as is. We all know or should search for particular problem areas with our cars. Everything electronic depends on a stable voltage reference for proper operation and that reference is always ground. I'll also add a shameless plug for optima batteries as what everyone says is that they last longer than most vehicles they're in. I used to replace my battery about every four or five years but my optima is over ten and still going strong. One final point is that alternators are not designed to quickly charge dead or severely discharged batteries and that's why the charging wire is not as large as engineering would lead us to believe it should be. It serves as a sort of current limiter keeping the alternator from working too hard and this is also good for batteries. Hard fast charging should be avoided unless absolutely necessary so use a battery charger to charge batteries and leave the alternators job to keeping it that way! One final note is that all ND alternators with the same plug do not necessarily have the same type voltage regulator so without getting technical, the terminal call out types must match for the parts to be interchangeable. I hope this helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
The alternator I installed is indeed from an ES 300. The LS 400 one (pn 27060-50010) is almost identical except for the mounting ears. They're also in the 1:00 and 5:00 position like the ES 300 one. The lower mount is much like the stock 85 alt. but the top one is quite different and unthreaded as these are solidly mounted and would require a helicoil and further mods to fit our cars with 5M or 6M engines. 7M might be easier. YMMV just like my memory does!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,312 Posts
Our alternators don't have diode trios, they actually have 4 diode sets, for 4 windings, where most non- ND alts have 3. I think I read 5% of your post man, try some more spacing! haha. Good stuff though. Most of that I have in my little write up I made in my sig from a few years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
The alternator I installed is indeed from an ES 300. The LS 400 one (pn 27060-50010) is almost identical except for the mounting ears. They're also in the 1:00 and 5:00 position like the ES 300 one. The lower mount is much like the stock 85 alt. but the top one is quite different and unthreaded as these are solidly mounted and would require a helicoil and further mods to fit our cars with 5M or 6M engines. 7M might be easier. YMMV just like my memory does!
Ive got the 100amp lexus alt on my cressida with a 5m... no helicoilin or anything, I just ran a bolt through it and a nut on the other end... Nice and easy. Did have to modify the upper bracket so it would travel smoothly along the adjustment arc though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Ive got the 100amp lexus alt on my cressida with a 5m... no helicoilin or anything, I just ran a bolt through it and a nut on the other end... Nice and easy. Did have to modify the upper bracket so it would travel smoothly along the adjustment arc though.
Did you use the P/N that Ray referred to? If not what P/N did you use? And where did you get it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Just did a 92 Camry alternator upgrade on my 5m, got the stuff from autozone. However the 90' escort belt was far too small for me. I had to go back and what i ended up with was a 4 rib of the same length as a stock 5m. I'm not sure what car it is out of, but just take the stock belt with you and compare at the store. the alternator works perfectly!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,326 Posts
bumping an old thread for some new info. does anyone have any idea if either of these would work on the 92 camry/es300 alt to keep our stock belt? the ID is correct on both, but they both list a 25mm belt. The specs on belts i find on rock auto vary, but most about just at or under 1", so i'm not sure which size it actually is.

64mm diameter:
http://store.alternatorparts.com/part-242262--.aspx

58mm diameter:
http://store.alternatorparts.com/denso-7-groove-pulley-25mm-wide-58mm-od-17mm-bore.aspx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,161 Posts
Slice a rib off of your stock belt, bro. I did it and it worked fine.
Keep your stock belt? Yep, I sure did as well. Cut a single rib off....SIMPLE!
 
181 - 193 of 193 Posts
Top