[trdmkii]

Hi Guys, gotta few questions...

I am an avid autocrosser, just started this year...lol after 4 events i'm learning that i'm going to need to go with some new suspension and some race rubber, but my questions are:

I've been having a noise from my rear and its been getting worse so tonight i crawled under there and realiezed that i no longer have a bushing that supports the shock, now i was looking at cs.com and think i'm going to go with the koni's, anyone that has them what do they think and do you autocross with them?

The other question with the shocks is do they come with the little bushings or would i have to purchase those from toyota?

My third question is coil springs. on the FAQ section on cs.com it doesn't say rear or front on the coil springs which are they for and if anyone has any suggestions i would be appreciative.

My final question is what do you guys think about the rear sway bar, should i replace it, or just sandblast repaint and but new bushings on my stock sway bar, and what bushings i should put on them (toyota or aftermarket).

I know thats a lot :deal: but i'm really looking for some insight, i was talking with this z guy and i really wanna kick his ass :burn: at the events, it looked bad having an 85z car beating me by soo much, although he has new supsension upgraded and racing wheels and race rubber. I appreciate the help

oh yeah by the way i run in stock class.....but might go to stx if i needed too...have some ol' 325's that run that class....

 

[Don L.]

My suggestion for for Stock class is to go get a custom front sway bar made, with rod ends as end links. This eliminates the urethane bushings in the end links, if you can get 3 holes drilled in the bar end, even better.
I have a 1 & 1/4" bar made by Saner Perf in Florida. You can probably get as good a bar elsewhere, although there price was only $185.

The rear bar is virtually useless as stock. Bar is very thin, and the links plus the tabs on the susp arms the links attach to are very weak. Just make sure the bushings are good on the stock setup, and the susp arm mounting point for the end link is not broken.

I run Koni Yellow Sport rear shocks from a E36 BMW. The lower eyelet came with a middle sleeve and surrounded by bushing material. I had to remove all this and have just a eyelet. Then went and bought a hard black rubber set of shock bushings, trimmed them a bit, and used them as lower shock bushings, one on each side of the eyelet. This Koni is very firm on the compression (non-adjustable) and adjustable for rebound only. I've found this to be the best autox rear shock, just a bit stiff for the street. I'll be going to double adjustable race shocks in rear soon, but these Konis have been great.

Front struts get whatever you can. Tokico HP are fine, I heard the front struts from a 280zx may be adapted to fit. That would be a great choice in Tokico Illumina.

Fix the rear LSD. To be legal in Stock class, you would have to rebuild the LSD, if possible, tighten those clutch packs as much as possible. Illegal, but morally ok with me is the TruTrac upgrade for the rear LSD.
Much better on corner exits under power. Every time you are spinning that inside rear tire (and I bet it happens a bunch), take note that the solution is a combo of better rear LSD, and much stiffer front swaybar.

For the stock wheels, go with Kumho Ecsta V700 race tires in 225/50-14.
Best tire for autox for the $$. Toyo RA1 are pretty good, last longer, but less ultimate grip, plus they may cost a bit more.

Lastly, put in a straight thru muffler. Don't sweat the stock springs, they are probably ok, not worth the expense to put in new stock ones. Just get good struts/shocks.

Now, if you were going DSP, we could talk some serious $$.

Don L.
DSP Supra
Nationals finish 5th (twice by co-driver)
National Tour 1st, 2nd, 3rd, multiple times (by me)
Future events: Bremerton,Wa 7/26/03 & Topeka, Ks 9/9/03

 

[BillyM]

Hey Don, I'm interested in that swaybar you speak of. How does it compare to the addco in your opinion? I need to put some hurt on a cocky old-timer in a cooperS running hoosiers, and I need to control the front corner-dive braking into the turn. Loading up the front outer tire gives me a good turn-in, but the sudden weight change makes it really unstable/twitchy when accelerating out and changing the weight back to the rear.

The tokicoHP's are going on before next weekend which should help that unstable weight-change some (but a big fat swaybar would be ultracool keeping the front flatter to take advantage of my massive -1deg camber). Kuhmos (or possibly used hoosiers) will go on within the next couple months.

Anywho, that bar, come with the end-links/bushings etc..? Does it fit in the stock location, or do you need to do the same thing as the addco front install? Was that price after shipping? Can I get one a tad larger? Do you have a link or contact information to a place where I can get one made?

Thanks for any info.

--BillyM
Viva La AutoX (we need our own section, so i can mooch autox information from don more often)

 

[trdmkii]

so you say use the shocks for bmw and that is the best bet, and you're sure that i don't need to get stiffer springs....

 

[Don L.]

Hey Billy:

I got the front bar made at Saner Performance, in Florida. Their info:
Sanerperffab.com
email: [email protected]
1449 S.W. Flounder Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34953
561-873-0238

Hope they are still in business. Harder than hell to contact and speak to anyone. I did mainly email, then sent my Addco bar to them to basically copy shape, then they sent both bars back to me. Yes, the new bar came with spherical bearings, end links and such, all bushings. I had to modify the center brackets a bit to fit onto the car. The bar is relatively huge for this car (1.25"). The stiffness goes up exponentially or something so when I went from 1 & 1/8" (Addco) to this bar, it was a huge difference.
Negatives about this bar is it took almost 2 months. The bar ends are bent just a bit off, such that I really can't use all three adjustment holes on the bar, so I run on the inside holes which is the stiffest setting.
For your info, Saner measured the stiffness of my Addco bar, and the stiffness of each of the 3 adjustment settings of the new bar:
Addco bar: 423 lbs
Saner soft setting: 570 lbs
Saner middle : 646 lbs
Saner hard: 737 lbs

This was such an impressive mod ! This is why so many drivers in Stock class get custom front bars. SCCA rules currently allow replace of front bar, so the off the shelf stuff isn't enough. More than a few competitors get custom stuff from shops like Saner, and just don't tell everyone.
My friends who run BS with Honda S2000 (the hot car in the class) go with such stiff custom front bars that sometimes the center brackets get ripped out, or endlinks fail. When you can't do springs, rear bar, etc in Stock class, this is the trick mod. Don't get misled that a stiff front bar will increase understeer automatically. Lots of good stuff happens first before the understeer will develop. I believe the benefits of limiting camber change with a front bar are significant, plus the gains of better power to the ground exiting corners.

Anyway, good luck talking with Saner. If I were closer to that shop, I'd go in and get another bar made, just slightly different shape. Too hard across the country. BTW, their price was $185, plus shipping etc total was $212.

Don L.

 

[SupraWes]

They still advertise in the back of Grassroots Motorsports so they are still there.

You are lucky if thats all thats in STX, I would have to tangle with some WRX's here, they are usually as fast as the top drivers in DSP who are on Hoosiers, or at least Victos.

Me personally, I am buying an AW11 MR2 to run in E Stock, Im going to freshen up the car, build it to the limits of the stock rules and use it as a daily driver. autoX car. The Supra can have a rest and it will be a fun car.

 

[Racefiend]

Hey Don, I thought you switched to those Rancho's for the Trooper? Did those not work out?

Christian

 

[Don L.]

The National events and most of the local events are on pretty smooth surfaces, some asphalt, some concrete. The Konis rear shocks I ran, and hopefully the Adv. Design shocks I have on order have stiffer compression rates which I feel is better for most courses. The Ranchos were a savior on the Candlestick course because it is sooo bumpy, Stockton is kinda bumpy too so the softer compression rate and adjustable rebound worked well. I think the Ranchos are a good cheap option for rears on a stock spring setup, or Eibachs. My 300+ lb springs in the rear is probably too much for them. I'll keep a set for Candlestick, but the rest of my events this year will be on smooth surfaces so I'll be stiffening everything up.

Gera: I think you could run the Koni sports in rear without upgrading the springs. The Konis have pretty high gas pressure and stiff compression rate, will be plenty stiff I think.

Don L.

 

[trdmkii]

Gera: I think you could run the Koni sports in rear without upgrading the springs. The Konis have pretty high gas pressure and stiff compression rate, will be plenty stiff I think.

Don L.

Well hey Don L. so you are saying that the Koni sports for the bmw like you said earlier and where is the best place to get them?

 

[Don L.]

Rear Koni Yellow Sport Shocks for a BMW E36 325i or E36 M3, same part#. These units need to be compressed to change the rebound settings. I take em off the car to do it. As for best price to get them, I have no clue. I bought mine several years ago from a company in Canada. Good price would be around $120 each I think. Try Shox.com, or Tirerack.com. Dependable places. Ground Control should have them too, but their price may not be as good.

Don L.

 

[skip]

my buddy just got some KONI rear shocks for his E46 3 series. so i decided to swing by and take a look and see if it was something we can use. i brought over a rear KYB shock for comparison. unfortunately it looks like the KONI's were a bit too short. well here are the pictures anyways for reference.

 

[FWDsux]

Oooo! That's about perfect for the drop my rear Dobinsons will give me... :yumyum: E46 you say? Are these externally adjustable? Or the kind you take off to change settings...

 

[skip]

yes it is from an E46. not sure if they are externally adjustable. i'll give my buddy a call and see if i can get any info.

 

[Dangerous Ken]

Shaun,

Bet you noticed how yellow they are too...

Ken

 

[skip]

yep i like yellow i just talked to my buddy and he said they are off the car adjustables. but like everyone says the rear shocks are no biggie to have come off or on...its the fronts that are a pain.

 

[SlimFastSupra]

not bad

a shorter shock will increase travel on a lowered setup. that is a little shorter then I think I would want but its not bad either.

I sell shocks so it's pretty easy for me to experiment. I think I might try the bilstein HD for E46. They are much cheaper then the koni. I cant really see myself removing the shock and adjusting it.