Roll Center Adjusters ~$50/set
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Is everyone planning on running these with short-stoke stut inserts? I am a little concerned about this, have been talking about it on the OCC. Here are some quotes from Whiteline someone posted:
"Our Whiteline shocks supplied with our AE86 Sprinter kit have factory
body length, and shorter open length. This is necessary when fitting RCA
kit, as it otherwise pushes the control and steering arm further down,
past their full travel."
"...the reason why fitting ... RCA requires shorter shock OPEN length is
that the steering arm inner ball joint (rack end) does not have enough
articulation to allow for this extra rotation at FULL DROOP."
and
"You can try this if you like on your RA29 by raising the front and
supporting on safety chassis stands, then crack and remove the outer
steering-tie-rod end, and then see how much further you can push it
down. When we did this test, we found only an extra 10-15mm of extra
movement."
(Whiteline, Jan 17 2003)
Only alternative is to rig up straps to minimise drop - sounds dodgy to me. Anyone got any ideas?
"Our Whiteline shocks supplied with our AE86 Sprinter kit have factory
body length, and shorter open length. This is necessary when fitting RCA
kit, as it otherwise pushes the control and steering arm further down,
past their full travel."
"...the reason why fitting ... RCA requires shorter shock OPEN length is
that the steering arm inner ball joint (rack end) does not have enough
articulation to allow for this extra rotation at FULL DROOP."
and
"You can try this if you like on your RA29 by raising the front and
supporting on safety chassis stands, then crack and remove the outer
steering-tie-rod end, and then see how much further you can push it
down. When we did this test, we found only an extra 10-15mm of extra
movement."
(Whiteline, Jan 17 2003)
Only alternative is to rig up straps to minimise drop - sounds dodgy to me. Anyone got any ideas?
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Not having followed the full discussion of the above thread, it seems to me that they are discussing 1) a different car , 2) no mention of amount of susp lowering by shorter springs, 3) not a situation to occur while on the road driving.
Some of the points made seem true however. I wouldn't use the RCAs on a car that isn't lowered at least 1" in front (what's the point?). The sway bar and strut rod that goes from the susp arm to the frame seriously restricts how much the susp arm can move. I doubt the "droop" will be easy to obtain. Also, if the car is up in the air on a lift, wheels dangling, with shortened springs, there will be very little force on the susp arm to go to the "lowest droop" position. Spring might even bounce around loose a bit.
Gives me more incentive to put in a set of RCAs.
Don L.
Some of the points made seem true however. I wouldn't use the RCAs on a car that isn't lowered at least 1" in front (what's the point?). The sway bar and strut rod that goes from the susp arm to the frame seriously restricts how much the susp arm can move. I doubt the "droop" will be easy to obtain. Also, if the car is up in the air on a lift, wheels dangling, with shortened springs, there will be very little force on the susp arm to go to the "lowest droop" position. Spring might even bounce around loose a bit.
Gives me more incentive to put in a set of RCAs.
Don L.
Thanks
What I asked was "Whiteline also say you need short-stroke strut inserts to go with, but I think I should be ok with my
stiffer springs - shouldn't I?" and that was my response
Do you know what other cars these RCAs will fit? I have some other guys over here in Australia interested in the group buy, but i need to now which other cars they will fit. The whiteline part is the same as for the ae86 an ra28 celica, I believe, but that doesnt nessesarilly mean that THESE ones are.
What I asked was "Whiteline also say you need short-stroke strut inserts to go with, but I think I should be ok with my
stiffer springs - shouldn't I?" and that was my response
Do you know what other cars these RCAs will fit? I have some other guys over here in Australia interested in the group buy, but i need to now which other cars they will fit. The whiteline part is the same as for the ae86 an ra28 celica, I believe, but that doesnt nessesarilly mean that THESE ones are.
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The idea behind a RCA is to restore the angle of the lower suspension arm.
Since it has a fixed pivot point (on the frame), lowering springs
create an angle "UP" towards the outboard pivot (the ball joint
in this case).
You've installed a set of lower springs. Say Eibachs. They drop
the the suspension 1". Your car now sits lower.
Since the inboard pivot point of the lower control arm doesn't change,
its outboard point in space moves up 1".
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Insert a spacer to lower this pivot point, this restores the lower
control arm to it's original angle.
Note that this outboard pivot point is the ball joint, combined with
the steering arm.
So, with a RCA, it's all back to stock.
Since it has a fixed pivot point (on the frame), lowering springs
create an angle "UP" towards the outboard pivot (the ball joint
in this case).
You've installed a set of lower springs. Say Eibachs. They drop
the the suspension 1". Your car now sits lower.
Since the inboard pivot point of the lower control arm doesn't change,
its outboard point in space moves up 1".
Insert a spacer to lower this pivot point, this restores the lower
control arm to it's original angle.
Note that this outboard pivot point is the ball joint, combined with
the steering arm.
So, with a RCA, it's all back to stock.
Yes, I completly understand all that, I think what some people say is that on full droop...I guess like when the car is on a hoist, as I would hope it would never happen while driving... the shock will extend to its full travel, which will now overextend the control arm below stock, and beyond the balljoint's travel.
If the control arm just sits on the strut bar before it gets to this point of (stressing the balljoint??), and it would only ever happen while on a hoist or when jacking the car up, I don't see a problem.
Very good explaination pics BTW
If the control arm just sits on the strut bar before it gets to this point of (stressing the balljoint??), and it would only ever happen while on a hoist or when jacking the car up, I don't see a problem.
Very good explaination pics BTW
Isn't the amount of droop of the control arm when the car is on a hoist determined by the length of the extended strut insert? Kind of hangs off it?So regardless of what the balljoint is doing, the control arm+wheel etc is going to want to hang down MORE than stock... the length of the fully extended damper+30mm instead of just the length of the fully extended damper.
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There are several possible "stops" in the front suspensionStefan said:
when on a lift.
The actually shock travel, the front strut rods, the steering rack pivots,
the ball joints and some from the front sway bar.
Which one "stops" first, I don't know, but given it's hanging weight,
the only concern I would have would be putting a few hundred extra
pounds on the hanging suspension.
At that point, one will also experience unitized body flex.
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