High compression pistons? You'll be lucky to hit 10psi before the motor blows apart. Stick to 8.8 early 5mge compression if you want to go turbo. 8-8.5 would be best if you wanna hit 20psi. 400 is doable, but not for 1500.
Christian
Christian
souped up 5m suggestions
Hey, I'm gonna soupe up my 5mge this summer, this is what I'm thinking... I wanna have the engine rebuilt, the pistons bored out, then make the pistons high compression and y'know, just the basics to make that all work, then I wanna stick on a turbo and shoot for about 20psi of boost. I think I can do this all for about $1500 and I was wondering if any of you have suggestions on what I could do with it, I'm shooting for about 400bhp with the turbo putting in 20psi, but if I can't hit 20psi do you guys know any way I could hit 400 without using as much boost from the turbo? Also, any good exhaust and headers and crap like that I should check out for that kinda power?
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youre pesimistic, the pistons in a 5m suck, they gotta be replaced. I think I could hit 20psi with the right parts and equip... maybe 1500 is a little low, but I bet it shouldnt be too much more.
you might be able to slap something together for that money like that, but its gonna explode the first time you drive it. From the reading Ive done, Im expecting to be able to build a safe 200-250hp turbo 5m for somewhere around $2000 cdn. Beyond this you're talking about forged rods and pistons, fuel pump and computer upgrades, probably new rear end and tranny, etc. You'd be better off doing the 7m-gte swap at that point I think. Anyone know if there is a good header for a turbo set up?
If you are going to go 20 PSI..... forged pistons, a MHG and the decking of the block and the head will run you $1500 alone.
You dont want to raise compression for forced induction on our engines.
To get 20 PSI you are going to need:
decent IC and pipng $1200 for the Rabbid chimp stuff
Bigger injectors and clips $50-100 for used + 125 for cleaning
Forged pistons $800-1000
2.0mm MHG $185
Deck block and head $200
ARP head studs $180
ARP conn rod bolts $160
Oil line kit for turbo $120
Turbo $200-1100 depending brand and effiency. For 20psi you want an efficent one.
MAF conversion or SAFC $300-600
Then you have all of your misc parts like gaskets and hoses.
That also doesnt take into account the cost of whatever other work you get done to the head and block when you rebuild it.
I have Over $4000 into my 5mgte conversion and I am running a used ct26 turbo and wont go above 10psi. That is with a complete engine rebuild. Most people opt for a 7mgte conversion. You can do it for about as much.
Good luck
You dont want to raise compression for forced induction on our engines.
To get 20 PSI you are going to need:
decent IC and pipng $1200 for the Rabbid chimp stuff
Bigger injectors and clips $50-100 for used + 125 for cleaning
Forged pistons $800-1000
2.0mm MHG $185
Deck block and head $200
ARP head studs $180
ARP conn rod bolts $160
Oil line kit for turbo $120
Turbo $200-1100 depending brand and effiency. For 20psi you want an efficent one.
MAF conversion or SAFC $300-600
Then you have all of your misc parts like gaskets and hoses.
That also doesnt take into account the cost of whatever other work you get done to the head and block when you rebuild it.
I have Over $4000 into my 5mgte conversion and I am running a used ct26 turbo and wont go above 10psi. That is with a complete engine rebuild. Most people opt for a 7mgte conversion. You can do it for about as much.
Good luck
You'll spend close to that on fuel system alone to reliably put that kind of power down on a 5m. It can be done for less, but if you want reliable, its gonna cost ya. Add about 1000 for rods, 750 for pistons & rings, then you need a turbo capable of 20psi. ct26 won't do it. so now you need a manifold and turbo, throw in 1000-6000 (unless you get an adapter for the 7m manifold..then 700+), a decent IC 700+, plus bearings/gaskets ~350. And lots more $$$ for countless little things. It can get really expensive rather quickly. The only reason I see to build up a 5m to such high power levels is if you REALLY like the fact of using the original motor. However, if you look at cost vs gain, you are much better off doing a 7mgte swap. You can get 400bhp out of the stock engine with some decent boost/fuel mods. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 5m is just not a good powerplant to get those kinda numbers for cheap. It's gonna cost $youre pesimistic, the pistons in a 5m suck, they gotta be replaced. I think I could hit 20psi with the right parts and equip... maybe 1500 is a little low, but I bet it shouldnt be too much more.
Christian
hmm yeah, maybe a 7mgte is a good idea, yeah, I haven't done much reading I'm still getting into the thoughts of what to do (that's why I've done nothing yet). I have about 3-4k to spend.
So I take it the 8.5 compression ratio is good to keep.
I don't have the mechanical skills for doing an engine swap on my own, so it would seem a lot more cost efficent to just keep the 5m.
20psi... yeah, thats wishful, lol... think I could get to 15 for about 4k? The body is in good shape and the transmission is fairly new (about 30k miles)
So I take it the 8.5 compression ratio is good to keep.
I don't have the mechanical skills for doing an engine swap on my own, so it would seem a lot more cost efficent to just keep the 5m.
20psi... yeah, thats wishful, lol... think I could get to 15 for about 4k? The body is in good shape and the transmission is fairly new (about 30k miles)
Still flying at 30,000 feet! Expecting to survive more than a single pass down the strip at over 12 psi on a 5m is gonna require a programmable stand-alone ECU and major mechanical modifications in the neighborhood of many, many thousands of dollars, especially if you don't have the mechanical skills to do it all yourself and have to pay for all the services. A couple of guys on this forum do the 7m-gte swap as sort of a side business and they'll run you $5000 to $6000 US to swap in a freshened, but bone-stock 7m-gte, which is nearly minimum wage considering the work involved. From there you can follow at your own pace the typical upgrade path of the many mk3 owners learning as you go. Turbocharging a 5m at any level is really something that ought to be left to those who revel in the do-it-yourself automotive hobbies and who chalk up every little unforeseen necessity and minor disaster as merely the cost of their education.
Phil D.
Phil D.
Phil,the reason you don't see Don C. or myself advertising any more,is the cost,for many reasons,is over 8k up here now.To top it off,it's still minimum wage or less with the time involved.
The biggest problem is lack of donor cars,with all the components.Sourcing it out seperatley sucks.I just recently priced it all out,for a nameless list member and it was close to $8500,working for about $5 hour.
The swap can be done much cheaper as you know,but a guy has to give up quality,and do it himself,or get deals like we used too :wink:
The biggest problem is lack of donor cars,with all the components.Sourcing it out seperatley sucks.I just recently priced it all out,for a nameless list member and it was close to $8500,working for about $5 hour.
The swap can be done much cheaper as you know,but a guy has to give up quality,and do it himself,or get deals like we used too :wink:
Simple supply side economics! Mk3s are becoming scarce around Texas too, tho not yet as scarce as mk2s. I've been wanting to do this for my redpra daily driver. My ideal donor would be to find a mk3t thats still driveable but that for other reasons wouldn't be feasible for restoration making it OK to part it out. I been watching the local auction and classified listings for the past year and all than have come up have had the dreaded BHG or otherwise non-running which is too much risk not knowing without taking it apart if its just bhg or if the internals are totally trashed. Thats another factor to consider is that a great deal of patience is required to find just the right donor car at a price that makes it doable. Jeff in Atlanta apparently had a couple of donor cars already lined up but come to think of it, he hasn't posted in a while either so its possible his supply is already spoken for or gone already.
Phil D.
Phil D.
If you dont have the mechanical skills to do an engine swap then you probably dont have the skills to build a 15psi system from scratch. It would be more complex than a straight engine swap. Especially considering how many resources there are to help with the 7m swap.CST said:I don't have the mechanical skills for doing an engine swap on my own, so it would seem a lot more cost efficent to just keep the 5m.
20psi... yeah, thats wishful, lol... think I could get to 15 for about 4k? The body is in good shape and the transmission is fairly new (about 30k miles)
If you want quick power cheap then look into the Holley nitrous kit for our cars.
-Wil
i agree with dohc82, if you dont have the skills nessecary for an engine swap (it wouldnt be that tough), then i highly recommend you dont attempt this cobbled together turbo running sky high boost levels that your discussing.
think of it this way, you get a 7mgte, it has 75k miles.... its basically a new engine, compared to MOST MKIIs
its also more up to date and modern, will probably get better milage, and they are much easier to get power out of, than converting a N/A engine.
plus then you get the street cred of a mythical engine swap, versus the honda route of slapping a turbo on an unprepaired engine. :evil:
yay, go honda style time bomb...
think of it this way, you get a 7mgte, it has 75k miles.... its basically a new engine, compared to MOST MKIIs
its also more up to date and modern, will probably get better milage, and they are much easier to get power out of, than converting a N/A engine.
plus then you get the street cred of a mythical engine swap, versus the honda route of slapping a turbo on an unprepaired engine. :evil:
yay, go honda style time bomb...
I dunno, I guess I could do a swap, I've just never tried. We actually did make a time bomb with my friends prelude, so that's why I think I can do that again. I'm no car idiot, I know how to do it, it's just that I've never done it so it scares the hell outta me, lol.
Okay, I just got off the phone with a mechanic... he was sayin that I could get a safe 350bhp 5mge for around 2500, is he talking crap or what? Cuz from what you all say it sounds like it but I dunno, he knows more about cars than I do.
I would give him the car and $2500. Make sure you get the expected HP in writing (along with a 20,000 mile warranty).
My guess is that he doesnt know the first thing about turbocharging 5mge engines.
My guess is that he doesnt know the first thing about turbocharging 5mge engines.
There are at least a dozen members of this list, people who seem to have considerable knowlege of what they're doing, who've tried to get some sizeable gains from turboing a 5m. Despite some pretty ingenious methods, no one has gotten anything more than about 250 yet. I thing if 350 were possible for $2500, one or probably several of our members would have done it sometime in the last five years we've been a group. I'd beware of anyone making outrageous claims like that and asking for money.
Phil D.
Phil D.
Chances are he gonna strap on a 150 shot of n20 onto it, and call it "Safe".CST said:Okay, I just got off the phone with a mechanic... he was sayin that I could get a safe 350bhp 5mge for around 2500, is he talking crap or what? Cuz from what you all say it sounds like it but I dunno, he knows more about cars than I do.
Like was said... Give this guy the money, get the HP garentee in writing, and get him to warrenty the work. 350 hp from a 5M won't happen on stock internals... and if it does, expect to have engine soup about 1000 miles down the road.
350bhp for 2500 is like slapping in a quick 150 shot of two stage NOS... but I think it is duable in one single pass... like a Kaboom and the car is in 100000000 pieces
2500 is just putting on a CT-26 set-up on a 5MGE and that is not even gauranteed to run past 9 psi without taking great consideration of the HG... I suggest this is a great reason to just save up your money and drop in a 7MGTE and boost it to a safe 9 psi and be done with it...
350bhp or so in a MK2 without a bulletproof suspension set-up is like riding a 200hp go kart... if you are planning to run those kind of numbers... get your suspension done first for you don't want to drive the 300+ beast with a sloppy unsafe suspension... take it from us guys who has seen the power of 5/6MGTE's and also the guys with 7MGTE's... one thing they would recommend first is get the suspension done for this rate of power... there is no joke with 300+ HP but without a suspension... PRAY and think that you won't do something that the suspension can't handle
2500 is just putting on a CT-26 set-up on a 5MGE and that is not even gauranteed to run past 9 psi without taking great consideration of the HG... I suggest this is a great reason to just save up your money and drop in a 7MGTE and boost it to a safe 9 psi and be done with it...
350bhp or so in a MK2 without a bulletproof suspension set-up is like riding a 200hp go kart... if you are planning to run those kind of numbers... get your suspension done first for you don't want to drive the 300+ beast with a sloppy unsafe suspension... take it from us guys who has seen the power of 5/6MGTE's and also the guys with 7MGTE's... one thing they would recommend first is get the suspension done for this rate of power... there is no joke with 300+ HP but without a suspension... PRAY and think that you won't do something that the suspension can't handle
what about a 7mgeu bottom end with a 5mgeu head, and metal head gasket, stockish.. with custom t3 turbo and exhaust etc.. what power would that give approximately? Obviously running stock boost at around 8psi and a medium sized intercooler, say, a R33 GTS-t.. this might be a little small though.. but easy to find for cheap.
The 7MGTE is rated at 230 HP in stock form and is very reliable if you don't abuse it. Why not just do the conversion and save yourself the headache and grief of wondering whether or not a modded 5M with a huge turbo is going to hold together or become an instant boat anchor. All of this talk of taking a 5MGE engine and performing voo-doo magic on it is really getting out of hand. If you had your choice between two engines that cost roughly the same amount, which would you choose; a stock 5M with an aftermarket turbo kit or a stock 7MGTE, both producing 230 HP?
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