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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so I popped another Supra CV joint in my rear axle. Seems both times it has been the driver side inner CV joint. I looked around my garage at the assorted spare parts I mostly forget that I have, and decided to measure the length of the Supra axles vs. the Cressida axles. From the Pick n Pull, the '86 Cressida axle is about 16.5" outer flange to outer flange, this is at minimal length. The CV joints allow the axles to extend out to max about 17.75". The Supra axles minimal length is 15.5", max is 16.75" extended. So, about 1" shorter for the Supra axles. I guess they are not interchangeable.

Maybe the CV joints and balls/cage are interchangeable. Not sure.

Anyway, it was probably mentioned before, but just a reminder that although the Cressida and Supra rear suspensions are very similar, not all parts are identical.

I will say that I have used Cressida rear control arms on my Supra, so I believe the control arms are the same.

Will be looking into upgraded rear axles, that can be a direct fit for the oem units. Not sure how crazy expensive they will be, and I am not looking for 1000 hp units, just something slightly stronger than stock.

Don L.

86 cressida vs supra by toy4speed, on Flickr
cressida and supra flanges by toy4speed, on Flickr
 

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Whistles
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I had to look high and low. It wasn't easy or cheap, but George was monumental in helping get them made.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, pretty frustrating the lack of shops around here that can do something with our axle design. At least I am learning something here. CV joints is likely best for our rear deflecting axle angles, vs. thinking about u-joints . There definitely are stronger CV units out there. Maybe our relatively short axles create a challenge, but seems very possible.

Not sure how much I would spend on axles, the range of pricing seems very vast. I guess if I don't break the axles, my $2k diff could be destroyed instead. Tough choices indeed!

Don L.
 

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The Cressida axles are indeed longer - I had to use one to get my car back from a road trip when one of the stock ones broke (boot cracked and the grease leaked out making it overheat bigtime) and I could only find a Cressida in a yard locally. The Cressida has a slightly wider rear subframe, making the pickup points for the rear control arms (which are identical to the Supra) further apart. This necessitates the longer CV shafts. After having taken them apart to reboot them and replace the grease, and examining the Cressida shaft I have, the only difference of the assembly is the axle shaft itself (longer).

I found after replacing the boots and replacing the grease (make sure there is lots in there!) I haven't had any CV shaft related issues at around 475 wheel horsepower and 275 width rear tires. That being said I have 3.73 rear axle ratio so that helps reduce the torque load.
 

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Whistles
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DSS was around $1,000 last I checked with them. The ones I had made, were cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
DSS was around $1,000 last I checked with them. The ones I had made, were cheaper.
My brief conversation with Tad at DSS , he mentioned that likely the Porsche style 930 CV joints would be appropriate for my fitment. He definitely sounded confident that something could be made. Price of course was not discussed yet.

I am beyond getting shocked by pricing, but still thoughful on the race budget! I try not to think about all the costs, it's history now, and never, never, try adding up all the bills of the car build!

Heck, around $1k in todays dollars would not be too bad.

Don L.
 

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what was failing on your axles?
the cressida ones being longer might actually work well for me, as my car is quite lowered and theyre a little stretched...not nearly bad enough to worry me. my s13 ones are much more of an angle and theyre "fine"
 

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Whistles
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Duplicate post. Oooops.
 

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Whistles
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My brief conversation with Tad at DSS , he mentioned that likely the Porsche style 930 CV joints would be appropriate for my fitment. He definitely sounded confident that something could be made. Price of course was not discussed yet.

I am beyond getting shocked by pricing, but still thoughful on the race budget! I try not to think about all the costs, it's history now, and never, never, try adding up all the bills of the car build!

Heck, around $1k in todays dollars would not be too bad.

Don L.

You ain't lyin'. My mod list is enough, and I haven't even touched the body or cosmetics!

I'm still going to have to put it all to the test and break my diff or something. My wife had to intervene and get me to think straight again. I lost my mind!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
what was failing on your axles?
the cressida ones being longer might actually work well for me, as my car is quite lowered and theyre a little stretched...not nearly bad enough to worry me. my s13 ones are much more of an angle and theyre "fine"
The Cressida axles are about 1" longer, and I doubt they would fit even a lowered car. On my attached pic, my lowered rear suspension ends up with more angle on the CV joints, but the length of the axle shaft really isn't too significant. No doubt extreme angles on the CV joint adds to chances of breakage, but I've seen lots of articulated rear ends before. Still, better CV joints would better handle the angles right? The other pics are of the broken cage, the ball retainer thing that the fits onto the axle spline. All pretty busted. Felt like humpty dumpty. Of course the axle splines were damaged too, just from broken stuff spinning. This time I shut it down fairly quick so the fragments are pretty large.
axle pass side by toy4speed, on Flickr
CV joint by toy4speed, on Flickr
CV joint cage frag by toy4speed, on Flickr
CV joint spline by toy4speed, on Flickr
CV joint axle spline by toy4speed, on Flickr
 

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A couple things. I just compared specs of the mk2 cv to the Cressida cv on Napaonline.com. The Cressidas compressed length is exactly 1 inch longer. makes me wonder if using the Cressida arms would push the rear wheels out an inch. Would fill the rear flares better when on stock wheels. Or is it the cross member itself that is wider?

Now, for your car would cutting the top of the sub frame bushings off be an option? This would mount the sub frame higher in the car, and reduce the angle on your CV's. I remember reading about people doing that on the old yahoo list to correct the camber a bit on lowered cars back in the day. This might make your axles last longer.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey William, just to clarify, the Cressida axles I have came from a '86 model. Apparently the '84 Cressidas are a different model and have shorter axles, same as Mk2 Supras.

I used Cressida rear arms on my adjustable rear camber project, currently running. However, now I don't recall if the rear arms came off a '86 Cressida or the older Cressida model, so I can't say for certain if all years ('84-'86) Cressida arms are same as Supra, or if the crossmembers are different widths.

My rear crossmember is already sitting against my under chassis now, not any room to raise it more. I won't lower the rear any more than present, it was the 315 tires and larger O.D. on the tires causing me to lower the rear. Running the 285mm tires in rear (with correct tire O.D.), seemed less of an issue. The changes to rake by lowering the rear was needed to balance handling, and it was quite noticeable. Just hope stronger axles able to handle the angle dangle will do the job.

Don L.
 

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Yeah, I looked at 86 Cressidas. Didnt think to check specs on 84.
 

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It is the crossmember itself that is longer - the arms are identical. I would suggest rebuilding a set of stock axles with lots of grease and new boots - that really helped me out as my only failures were due to overheating from torn boots (lost grease) or old grease (doesn't get into the joint well).'

That being said I am only lowered around 1.25 inches in the rear, so the CV angles aren't too bad. Lots of torque though - 7MGT with around 475 wheel. 3.73 rear end.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It is the crossmember itself that is longer - the arms are identical. I would suggest rebuilding a set of stock axles with lots of grease and new boots - that really helped me out as my only failures were due to overheating from torn boots (lost grease) or old grease (doesn't get into the joint well).'

That being said I am only lowered around 1.25 inches in the rear, so the CV angles aren't too bad. Lots of torque though - 7MGT with around 475 wheel. 3.73 rear end.
The rebuild tips much appreciated! I will for sure do this! Still looking at upgraded axles too, just because I think with my angle on the CV, upgraded would be best.

Don L.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Good discussion of next drivetrain item to break once I get upgraded axles! My thinking is that the angle my rear axles operate in with my lowered suspension contribute greatly to the CV joints breaking. Perhaps at more "normal" heights the rear axles (properly greased) would hold up rather well.
Although I have broken a ring and pinion gear (4.10 gears), it was at an autocross with drag race starts, probably not great for the car. I don't do those type of events anymore. My guess is that the axles are breaking too early, and the rest of the diff parts will hold up ok. Yes, axles are easy to swap, but still....breaking axles can still ruin my day.

Looking under the rear of my car, seems my current axles angle out/upward from the diff at approximately 10-12 degrees. Not sure what everyone else runs for axle angles. In my search for upgraded axles, I contacted Insaneshafts, a company in Calif, and of course Driveshaft Shop. There are a number of reasons I much favor Driveshaft Shop. Reputation, production time, knowledge, many reviews. Insaneshafts has a pretty good following in Southern California area, but couldn't quite work with my needs. Contact me via PM for details.

DSS was able to tell me the type of CV joint they would utilize (930 type), hp rating, time to manufacture (2 wks), and axles could operate at up to 25 deg angle. That is huge. They have all the specs, no need for me to send them old axles (?), everything made is new.

Will update.

Don L.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So, last weekend I broke another axle, also driverside, inner CV. Didn't even drive that hard (I thought), but got some odd handling quirks in the rear end prior to breakage. I felt like the rear brakes locked up several times during braking for a turn. Never did this before. So people actually saw my rear wheels lock up. I am wondering if the CV joints in the rear axle was already partially broken and preventing rotation of the axles. Just guessing, no clear info. Shortly later, heard the axle pop and shut the car down. Interesting appearance on tear down this time. The Hub/race/cage were all still in their respective locations, but visible cracks to all 3 parts could be seen. The splines on the axles were slightly damaged too. The previous CV joint breakage were totally in pieces, humpty dumpty style.
2nd axle break hub by toy4speed, on Flickr
2nd axle break race by toy4speed, on Flickr
2nd axle break cage top by toy4speed, on Flickr

I'm running out of old axles. Car will be limited to around the block driving until I get some custom axles made. Thinking about raising the front and the rear of the car just a bit. Never had an issue over several years with the 285mm tires in rear, but the 315mm tires are taller so the suspension needs to be lowered. Still thinking the lowered suspension is too much for the stock CV axles.

Don L.
 

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Just an idea that I never much looked into, but maybe the Toyota truck/4Runner front shafts from 86-95 have stronger parts that could be swapped in? I know they use a 7.5" front diff, so maybe the front driver side diff stub shaft could plug into our diffs? It is also a 6 bolt flange, making me wonder if the joints are beefier? Then maybe the inner joints can be swapped to our shafts. I forget if the outer joints are also 6 bolt flange or a splined/threaded end that goes into the steering knuckle. The wheel stub axles would be the next thing to break. Starion stub axles are close in some dimensions, and the SHP versions use a 6 bolt flange, but still no one has successfully fitted one to our control arms. There are also stronger chromoly Starion stub shafts available in their aftermarket, if one could adapt them to fit.

I remember Suprasaurus having the same issue with rear joints breaking from drag racing. He specifically blew up an outer CV joint once, but it stayed together enough to not be found until tearing the axles down looking for the cause of no forward drive. The inner "star" shattered as yours did, allowing the splined shaft to spin inside. Seems like that part specifically is the weakest link. The metal is pretty thin there.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
That's a pretty interesting idea! Maybe someone will eventually look into it. Our splined axles seem ok, and if the CV joints from a truck can be adapted to our splined axles, seems like an instant upgrade. I needed something done sooner than later, so today put in the order for DSS axles. They were really good to work with, and not too terribly much more expensive than other brands. The awesome thing is they listened to me, offered advice, seemed to understand I did unusual stuff to my rear suspension that requires a custom approach. Hope it works.

Don L.
 
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