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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
WASHINGTON – Toyota Motor Co. said Tuesday it was suspending U.S. sales of eight recalled vehicle models to fix accelerator pedals that stick, the latest quality problem to confront the world's No. 1 automaker.

As part of the plan, Toyota said it was halting production at five manufacturing facilities for the week of Feb. 1 "to assess and coordinate activities." There are 2.3 million vehicles involved in the recall, which was announced last week.

"This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized," said Bob Carter, Toyota's group vice president and general manager.

The Japanese automaker says the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

It was unclear how long Toyota would suspend production of the vehicles. In an e-mail to employees, company officials said, "we don't know yet how long this pause will last but we will make every effort to resume production soon." Toyota officials did not immediately return phone messages.

Toyota said the company would stop producing vehicles at plants in Indiana, Kentucky, Texas and Canada. They said no other North American Toyota facility would be affected by the decision.

The auto company said the sales suspension would not affect Lexus or Scion vehicles. Toyota said the Prius, Tacoma, Sienna, Venza, Solara, Yaris, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser and select Camry models, including all Camry hybrids, would remain for sale.

Toyota said last week it was recalling 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix accelerator pedals with mechanical problems that could cause them to become stuck.

That announcement followed a larger recall months earlier of 4.2 million vehicles because of problems with gas pedals becoming trapped under floor mats, causing sudden acceleration. That problem was the cause of several crashes, including some fatalities.
 

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well, my taco's not in this recall. actually, because i wasn't a dumbass and didn't put aftermarket floor mats in it, it wasn't part of the last recall either.
 

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Craziness
 

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Dayum

I can fix that.
 

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Boy, this is going to cost a lot$$$ - a little tarnish on the reputation too.
 

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The floor mat story is B.S. The problem is in their throttle-by-wire system. Hopefully they'll have a fix for this soon. There's something to be said for old school tech (throttle cables)....! My son has a Tacoma truck, but it's got a manual tranny, so all he's got to do is take it out of gear and shut off the ignition if the f'n thing sticks open.
 

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I don't have anything I can point you to...just info from a guy who works for Toyota and apparently has access to "inside" info. But based on what he's told me, I tend to believe it.
 

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Not to mention turning off vehicle or shifting into nuetral could have saved a few lives. Oh well, at least they will fix the issue.

And yes, I have heard about the aftermarket floor mats as well.
 

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As I understand it, they are modifying the gas pedal to fix the issue on recalled vehicles.
 

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I seem to recall hearing something along the same lines about this as well.
Not verifiable proof. Just something you seem to recall. Sorry.

As I understand it, they are modifying the gas pedal to fix the issue on recalled vehicles.
Modifying it so floor-mats won't get stuck under it?

From the original post:

"Toyota said last week it was recalling 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix accelerator pedals with mechanical problems that could cause them to become stuck."

What terrible, uninformed reporting. Accelerators cannot have mechanical problems. A pedal is just a pedal. Accelerator pedal throttle linkages can have mechanical problems (if they are mechanical), but we can't just assume that's what the reporter is addressing without knowing what they are so ineptly trying to explain.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls here, but I do think we all need to apply some critical thinking to this issue. I would hate to see a repeat of the "Unintended Acceleration" episode that almost killed Audi in the U.S in the 1980s. Audi was completely exonerated then, and were found not to be at fault in a single case, but it took them a good 10 years to restore their reputation and, even worse if you are a business, their sales in the U.S. Google it if you're unfamiliar with both the case and the dishonest reporting that led to it.

Don't think that Toyota's lawyers haven't studied that case back-to-front and are trying not to make the same mistakes Audi made, even though they were eventually found to be blameless. At this point it's more about massive damage control vis-a-vis the public's perception than about any real problem with the cars, hence the quick halt of production a mere week after the massive recall. Myself, I think Toyota is a pretty good citizen as massive corporations go, and am unashamed to hope that they come out of this unscathed. If someone can prove abject negligence in the design of the car's mechanical or drive-by-wire systems I will reconsider. If you do enough research you will discover that almost all the major carmakers have had to fight similar accusations of sudden acceleration. For whatever reason Audi, and now Toyota, are the two that have garnered the most press.

Bottom line is: some people died. In today's litigious society, a lot of people will calculate that someone ought to pay for those deaths. Proving -- or disproving -- what caused their deaths is the crux of the matter for Toyota. I predict the production halt will not be the end of this story for Toyota.
 

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The floor mat story is B.S. The problem is in their throttle-by-wire system. Hopefully they'll have a fix for this soon.
I'm totally in agreement!

No, I don't have proof ... but I have common sense.

Do you realty think the exact same pedal linkage goes in every model recalled?

It's more likely that a single component used cross platform is the culprit. Faulty pedal positional sensor, Coppied Software hiccup ect...

In my opinion Toyota has been doing 1 of 2 things.

1. They know what the real problem is ... and they are blowing smoke to misdirect the public in order to minimise the situation.

2. They honestly don't know what the issue is.

Both options suck.:eekfacepalm:
 

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i do have to give them props though for not selling the cars effected and shutting down teh production line until the problem is solved. that's not a trivial thing to do, they are probably loosing multi-millions everyday. i'm sure they want to fix it as soon as possible.

what other company have you ever seen shut down a production line for a recall?
 

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i do have to give them props though for not selling the cars effected and shutting down teh production line until the problem is solved. that's not a trivial thing to do, they are probably loosing multi-millions everyday. i'm sure they want to fix it as soon as possible.

what other company have you ever seen shut down a production line for a recall?
Probably suspending them because of the bad press they have been getting lately. Press like when they swept problems under the rug and not letting the public be aware of them until they were forced to (at least that's what the MSN article I read a couple of weeks stated). Suspending this may make them look a little better in the public's eye.

I don't have any inside people to inform me nor have I read it in an article but I also agree it's probably in the drive by wire system and not a floor mat! Guess we will wait and see. This has and will do more damage to the auto giant. That's for sure.
 

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I'm totally in agreement!

No, I don't have proof ... but I have common sense.

Do you realty think the exact same pedal linkage goes in every model recalled?

It's more likely that a single component used cross platform is the culprit. Faulty pedal positional sensor, Coppied Software hiccup ect...

In my opinion Toyota has been doing 1 of 2 things.

1. They know what the real problem is ... and they are blowing smoke to misdirect the public in order to minimise the situation.

2. They honestly don't know what the issue is.

Both options suck.:eekfacepalm:
A lot of similar speculative scenarious were tossed about during the Audi fiasco, the only difference being the drive-by-wire component, but that's only one of your theories.

Again this is just pure speculation on your part. And, sorry, the fact that you believe you have 'common sense' is neither here nor there.

A quote by a Toyota spokesperson, taken from the LA Times, Nov. 2009:

"Over the past six years, NHTSA has undertaken several exhaustive reviews of allegations of unintended acceleration on Toyota and Lexus vehicles. In each case, the agency closed the investigation without finding any electronic engine control system malfunction to be the cause of unintended acceleration," the company said in a statement."

I also read a different article in the LA times a few months back that stated the NHTSA told Toyota to re-examine the vehicles, which is pretty mind-boggling if you think about it -- they're asking the supposed offender to figure out what the problem is, which implies that they -- the NHTSA --don't have a clue what it is.

To date, I still haven't heard any statements by the NHTSA saying they have pinpointed the problem.
 

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I think you guys are mixing up your stories the floor mat recall and this recall are different. This has to do with a faulty gas pedal from a US supplier. From what I've heard there are only suspending sales on US made Toyotas which have these gas pedals.
 

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A lot of similar speculative scenarious were tossed about during the Audi fiasco, the only difference being the drive-by-wire component, but that's only one of your theories.

Again this is just pure speculation on your part. And, sorry, the fact that you believe you have 'common sense' is neither here nor there.

A quote by a Toyota spokesperson, taken from the LA Times, Nov. 2009:

"Over the past six years, NHTSA has undertaken several exhaustive reviews of allegations of unintended acceleration on Toyota and Lexus vehicles. In each case, the agency closed the investigation without finding any electronic engine control system malfunction to be the cause of unintended acceleration," the company said in a statement."

I also read a different article in the LA times a few months back that stated the NHTSA told Toyota to re-examine the vehicles, which is pretty mind-boggling if you think about it -- they're asking the supposed offender to figure out what the problem is, which implies that they -- the NHTSA --don't have a clue what it is.

To date, I still haven't heard any statements by the NHTSA saying they have pinpointed the problem.
Sorry, anyone asking me to remove "common sense" from the situation ... :duh: You go ahead and drink thier lime Koolaid.

"The NHTSA doesn't have a clue ..." Does Toyota?

If Toyota do know, would they tell the NTHSA? Would they tell consumers the whole truth?

It still breaks down to the exact same two options:

1. They know what the real problem is ... and they are blowing smoke to misdirect the public in order to minimise the situation.

2. They honestly don't know what the issue is.

They still both suck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
There are unfortunately much speculation and little fact. The NHTSA is your typical goverernment agency that will err on the side of caution. Imagine the effect on the auto industry if they used their supposed "full power". They could bankrupt a manufacturer very quickly. On the opposite side, they should be doing extensive testing to try and determine root cause, not relying on the manufacturer to do so. They claim they currently do not have the resources, and are probably telling the truth.

To my knowledge, the Toyota models in question do not have a throttle interrupt that cuts fuel when the brake is applied, like the Infiniti. Toyota does plan to add it to new models. Also, the keyless start/stop button will only shut the car off when the car is moving if it is held for longer than 3 seconds, which is probably not widely known to most consumers. The reasoning is that they didn't want someone to accidentlly shut off the car while driving. In addition, the floor mats in question (all weather) are an OEM option.

Poor accelerator pedal design coupled with thicker floor mats in conjuction with the engineering limitations above could explain many of these issues. The drive-by-wire, like most new consumer technologies, is getting the most finger pointing.

However, after looking at floor mat placement in many of the vehicles, it seems difficult to believe that the floor mats alone could account for all issues, even taking into account the "band wagon" effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3lq3839HdA&feature=player_embedded

The grain of salt is that while this video shows that it does seem unlikely that the floor mat caused the problem, it doesn't prove he actually had a problem with his car, and may only be seeking his 15 minutes of fame.

I personally think drive-by-wire is over-engineering at it's best, and is simply technology added for technologies sake, (like the frigging self folding mirrors on the Mercedes. I want to rip them off every time I see them) adding more expense from both an initial cost and later repair perspective, with no added benefit. But that's just my opinion.

Unintended acceleration issues are experienced by all manufacturers, not just Toyota. If your bored, cruise around the NHTSA site. You'll have to be REALLY bored.

At best, Toyota does have a problem with the way the system was designed, if it can be defeated by a simple floor mat. At worst, there really are deeper serious issues with the electronic controls.

Audi screwed it up back in the day, especially when their then US director of marketing, said “those Americans just can’t drive” (or words to that effect.) and it took them 10 years to recover.

It looks like Toyota is trying the Tylenol approach used in 1982. If you don't remember it (or weren't alive), google TYLENOL and POISON. This is widely regarded as one of the most successful damage control campaigns ever. Hopefully Toyota will experience the same results. This is only possible if they are not lying scumbags.
 

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I think you guys are mixing up your stories the floor mat recall and this recall are different. This has to do with a faulty gas pedal from a US supplier. From what I've heard there are only suspending sales on US made Toyotas which have these gas pedals.
Are you talking about a gas pedal that is faulty in that it causes cars to accelerate unintentionally or that it's faulty in that floor mats can interfere with it? It's not clear from what you've said. As I stated elsewhere, gas pedals themselves are not a mechanical device, they are just the contact point for the mechanical device. Not trying to split hairs here, but you're not offering any evidence of a specific component that's at fault.

I think it would be informative for anyone who is not familiar with the Audi case to read the details of the alleged incidents then and compare them to the alleged incidents now. The similarities are striking. And, again, Audi was completely exonerated when all was said and done. Most every action Toyota has taken this point is damage control to minimize the hysteria created by a media press corps that knows very little about cars, which in turn creates a lot of misinformation readily consumed by a public that is not much better informed than the press.

Sure, I'm playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here, but these instances do require a little more critical thinking than just opinion or speculation offer.
 
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