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my goal is to break 200 rwhp going n/a. my engine rebuild was supposed to be a budget thing jsut to get the thing cleaned up and stop leaking oil... and ive spent over $500 without even touching the bottom end right now.

so far ive ordered thorley headers, a rabid chimp intake (both of which havent arrived yet, but im in no big hurry to get them in, and i have in my possesion bored throttle body(done at local machine shop) and a port/polished cylinder head, new stainless steel valves, im doing a custom 2.5" stainless steel exhaust going to an apexi n1 muffler and high flow cat. i also have double platinum spark plugs, 9mm msd wires, and accel coil(hasnt arrived yet :(). i guessing this will all be good for what? 5 hp at most?

im guessing ill get most of my power from the bottom end, anyone know what i should do to reach my 200rwhp mark? i dont really wanna spend too much more on the motor, im gonna set my bottom end limit to around $600, to include machine work.. which is what burned my wallet on the head. any advice would be awesome.
 

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where did u get the stainless valves and where did u order the header. peaco make big cams and has valve spring in stock i have stock 85 with cut open air box and 3inch side pipe exhaust i went 15.6 on the motor and 14.52 on juice..
ps project 13 sec all motor mk2 already started...
 

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I'd go:
- port+polish
- balance and blueprint
- cams
- increase compression (?)
- header
- exhaust (high-flow cat or catless)
- intake
- throttle body
- MAF or MAP conversion
- AFC

...but you can make so much more power per $ with a $1500 turbo upgrade...
 

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port the crap out of the head and intake. polishing isn't that necessary, many people say that polishing actually hurts, the rough surfaces allow the air/fuel to mix better. Bump your compression up to around 10.5:1 or so, and get that new AFM to MAF conversion kit, and possibly some bigger injectors. Honestly though, the power is made in the head, so I would focus most of your attention there. I know you already have valves, but the bigger the better. I have no clue on cams though, I'd just stay stock?
 

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I've done all that, except the MAF & AFC, and I'm nowhere near 200rwhp on my 6M. If you want 200rwhp on any kind of a budget go for spray or boost, much cheaper either way.

quick said:
I'd go:
- port+polish
- balance and blueprint
- cams
- increase compression (?)
- header
- exhaust (high-flow cat or catless)
- intake
- throttle body
- MAF or MAP conversion
- AFC

...but you can make so much more power per $ with a $1500 turbo upgrade...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
so i pretty much have a lot of that done, ive heard stock cams are better over aftermarket cams. even though my car is now registered in a non-smog state, would running no cats at all screw me being that i do live in cali? last time i checked, since i am military, i only need one initial smog check for records, then its open season on my car.

BTW, anyone know how to properly disconnect and block off the egr system, i made up a couple plates to block off the intake and 'back of the head where the "S" shaped tube goes' holes... what else would i have to do. im not doing it for weight reduction, or power, im blocking it off to keep my hard work clean, so if i ever open my engine up again i dont have more carbon buildup that takes a bead blaster to clean again.

about how much does a blueprint and balance cost? and im considering going in on the afm>> maf conversion, being that my funds are in order when the purchase time comes around(which with my luck on every other group buy i wanted to get in on it wont be :(, but you never know).
 

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BTW, anyone know how to properly disconnect and block off the egr system, i made up a couple plates to block off the intake and 'back of the head where the "S" shaped tube goes' holes... what else would i have to do. im not doing it for weight reduction, or power, im blocking it off to keep my hard work clean, so if i ever open my engine up again i dont have more carbon buildup that takes a bead blaster to clean again.
Thats basically it, just make sure to plug all the open vacuum lines

about how much does a blueprint and balance cost?
Depends on where you have the machine work done. I spent ~$1500 on the machine work for my motor, which is actually pretty cheap. The balancing is usually pretty cheap, maybe $300. Blueprinting is basically a assembly/machining technique, so in someways it doesn't cost anymore, but you need somebody skilled to do it.
 

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I just had my block bored, decked, and the crank knifedged, balanced and lightened. It was $145 to lighten the crank and $135 to balance the entire bottom end, including clutch and flywheel. I'm sure your's will be a little more expensive because of the two extra cylinders but that should give you something to go on.
As for blueprinting, it is a process in which everything is measured and set to exact manufacturers specs. It will make your engine run longer and a bit smoother because you don't have to worry about all the little errors, that the manufacturer allows, building up and throwing something way out of wack. If you do crank work make sure to take a picture when you're done, a fully machined crank looks really cool.
 

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Be careful when porting the head because you can actually hurt airflow of you open the runners up too far. The best way to have the head ported is by someone with a flowbench who can figure out exactly how much and where to take out of the head.

Secondly, the biggest way to gain power on an N/A motor is compression. I would have shaved the head a bit and maybe even the deck of the block a bit if you can get away with it.

Lastly, having the right cam matched to the flow characteristics and compression of the motor will help too. this is gonna be the hard part as the choice of aftermarket cams out there are slim to none...and the ones that ARE out there, some of them aren't the greatest,

The biggest hurdle your going to have is the Fuel and timing maps... and honestly, there are just no cheep way around that. For a stock 5M, back in the day they were designed (which, remember while our cars are built in the early 80's, they were designed late 70's..) I am sure was cutting edge stuff... but now... lets face it..its a bit dated. IMHO, the ECU will be your hurdle.

Your definately on the right track, but 200 RWHP from an N/A 5M is a lofty goal without any power adders.
 

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Interesting how these last 2 posts relate. Remember that power increases come from increases in cylinder pressure during combustion. Cams with more lift and duration/overlap do this at upper RPM ranges but hurt power in the lower ranges without an increase in compression. Many novice engine builders overlook this and do one without the other. A 264* duration cam for instance, needs about 11:1 compression before it has much midrange torque.
Too much compression without adequate duration can actually hurt power too as the result is WAAYYY too much cylinder pressure at higher revs and the result is detonation without race+ gas.
Port/polish, (manifold too) header, exhaust, larger TB and a 3" MAF for breathing, and then the compression and cams should get you there,... But a 6M crank/rods for additional displacement and piston speed would sure help!
Just my $.02,
Jamie
 

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a carburator setup would actually be a good way to get some more power, but will cost some money to find a manifold.
 

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mk2_suprafan said:
my goal is to break 200 rwhp going n/a. my engine rebuild was supposed to be a budget thing jsut to get the thing cleaned up and stop leaking oil... and ive spent over $500 without even touching the bottom end right now.

so far ive ordered thorley headers, a rabid chimp intake (both of which havent arrived yet, but im in no big hurry to get them in, and i have in my possesion bored throttle body(done at local machine shop) and a port/polished cylinder head, new stainless steel valves, im doing a custom 2.5" stainless steel exhaust going to an apexi n1 muffler and high flow cat. i also have double platinum spark plugs, 9mm msd wires, and accel coil(hasnt arrived yet :(). i guessing this will all be good for what? 5 hp at most?

im guessing ill get most of my power from the bottom end, anyone know what i should do to reach my 200rwhp mark? i dont really wanna spend too much more on the motor, im gonna set my bottom end limit to around $600, to include machine work.. which is what burned my wallet on the head. any advice would be awesome.
IM no expert or anything but i think what u have or gonna do to the eng will get u very near 200hp. Also a little NAAAWWWWSSSSSSSSSS would not hurt.
 

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You might also consider boring the cylinders .80 or more over to increase displacement, along with running domed pistons and a shaved head.
 

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The amount of cash that you'd spend on building a radical 5M could be spent on a stock 6M that would give you the kind of power that you want with only a few minor mods..
 

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I don't know about minor mods, he doesnt want 200 crank hp he wants 200rwhp, so a 6M with a good drivetrain nake about 160rwhp probably still a bit more than minor mods to get another 40rwhp or 50-55 crank hp out of it.

However I do belive 6M is the way to go they go for about $500-$1000CDN here depending on dealer an availability. They have larger intake runners than early 5M's and no EGR from factory. All you have to fab up is a throttle linkage (very easy).

Still need headers, intake, port/polish, MAF, maybe cams but I havent heard anything good about 5/6M cams on the forums.... that could be a matter of propor tuning.

I would recomend the Pacesetter header over Thorley's because the thorley's are 6 into 1 which I belive means better high RPM response (I have been told) but the 5/6M is not a high RPM motor and the thorley's would not be in there efficencey range. The 6into2into1 of the pacesetter would probably work better for overall power.

Carl
 

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The Thorley is 6-2-1 and doesn't require the o2 sensor to be moved up where it should be. :roll: But the Pacesetter is a lot cheaper....
 
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