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Which header?

  • Pacesetter- cheap and effective.

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  • Thorley- worth the extra money.

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  • I got the Pacesetter, and don't like it. If I had it to do again, I'd spend the extra money on the

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • OTHER- reply with your choice

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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to be doing new exhaust in the fall, and I'm trying to get it all planned out ahead of time so when I get back from work, I can go on a spending spree.

Basically, I know the Thorley is better than the Pacesetter, but is it worth the extra $100 or so? I also realize that I will have to have the O2 sensor relocated, this is not a big deal. Thanks for your input.

The plan is a 2.5", free-flow cat, and a flowmaster, although I'm not sure which one will sound the best. Any input on this would also be appreciated.
 

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I've heard good things about the thorley and i am thinking about getting one, does anyone know where i can order one.
 

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I have the pacesetter headers, high flow cat, and flowmaster muffler. I do like them all, but if you are worried about sound levels I'd go with something else as my car is very loud with this setup. but... I personally really like the sound, hehe, it's not loud at idle or up to 2500 but has a nice growl, but at wot it's LOUD and sounds like you're in nascar, hehe. That may just be due to the flowmaster but I am not sure as I've never heard any other supra with any exhaust really that I can be sure of.

I do like the pacesetter headers but a couple things I don't, but those can be fixed...
1. They aren't legal here in california.
*If I were anywhere else this wouldn't matter, since you are in Oregon it doesn't make a difference I don't think.

2. the O2 sensor needs to be moved down to the y and the wire needs to be extended and kept safe.
*easily relocated by a muffler shop, wireing someplace else probably, mine was done at a 76 station by a friend of my muffler guy

There is one REALLY good thing about the pacesetters though. The price of coated pacesetters is less than UNcoated thorleys.

Not sure on hp/torque numbers though, which is better with which and how the powerband looks either way. From what I hear the thorleys are a bit better but I have no clue and havn't seen any numbers to prove either way. I would think the pacesetters would be better for higher rpm's and the thorleys for torque on the low and mids as the thorleys use a shorter tri-y design and collect early. The pacesetters collect down to 2 pipes just over 2 feet down. then another 6-9inches or so till they collect to a single pipe.

also mine aren't coated but if I could go back and buy them coated or have them jet coated I would.
I've also wrapped my headers recently with thermo-tec wrap then painted over with high temp thermo-tec paint. Some have said not to do this as it can kill the headers with heat spots (also was a pain in the ass to do, took me and my uncle a couple hours to do and we had to use a prybar to pry the tubes aparts just a tiny bit to get the wrap around, ugh, hard), but since mine weren't coated and it was VERY hot in my engine bay I thought this was a good solution to keep the heat in the exhaust and if they break or anything I'll just buy some later and have them coated next time.



Now If I could go back I'd do a few things differently with the pacesetters
1. I'd buy them coated or have the top part coated somewhere but not the y, reason is next..
2. I would have had the y-pipe made custom at a good muffler shop and made to collect into a single 2.5in pipe down to the cat.
(I'm not positive as I should have checked but I think they are 2.25 or maybe even 2in??? anyone know what they end at the cat with?) (also heard people do this with the thorleys as they are a 2.25 or less at the cat, not sure how big)

Or just have gone with the thorleys. Just my take on things.
 

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Pacesetters collect down to about 2" at the cat which is somewhat dissapointing. Good points made about having them modded first for the 02, then having them coated, otherwise buying them already coated then any welding will be subject to rust. Took my Pacesetter off and sold to Jamie. I remember a discussion on the email list a while back about how the stock manifold is really not a bad design. Flowmaster sounds cool and might be kinda fun for a hobby car but I wouldn't have it on a daily driver for sure. Unless going turbo, I'd stay with a 2 1/4" system. No dyno figures but I changed back from a 2 1/2" system and didn't seem to lose anything but the sound quality I believe is better. Magnaflow and a 18" vortex tube or resonator along with a high flow cat is a great setup.

Phil D.
 

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Before going turbo I had the Pacesetter for years. I used to live in LA and I passed smog with it, don't ask long story. I had the O2 redone to make the check engine light stop coming on. Overall I would do it again but I would get the coating. If you're going Turbo one day then save the money and get the Pacesetter if you never plan on it spend the bucks and get quality. BTW, I had the flange cut off of mine to make it 2.25 or 2.5 to the cat. I tried the Flowmaster but it's way too loud for everyday use. I had the Magnaflow with a glass pack to keep the noise down.
 

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I have the Thorley and It made a big difference on my 6M in the upper RPMs. Pulls much harder above 3.5K than before and doesn't run out of steam like it use to. This is with a 2.25" cat and a 2.5" Brullen exhaust. The exhaust does roar when you get into the upper RPMs at WOT! It's not quiet! :D It did lessen the droaning at lower RPMs also. Perhaps on a stock car the header won't do much but I found it to be quite a nice improvement with no loss of low end power/torque. I have an auto.

Things I don't like, the collector pipe is only 2.25", the brackets for the collector pipe are not lined up right and the exhaust sits at an angle looking at the rear of the car, and the O2 sensor mount doesn't sit close enough to the header in my opinion. Otherwise I'm very happy. Bought mine at pro-max for $512 coated, I think? :?
 

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In the local Supra Club, Rob with his German spec 84 put on some used Pacesetters. He threw away the stock Y pipe which goes to the 2 inch collector pipe and put on a much better flowing setup instead. The new Y pipe is a much better design than the original, which isn't hard to do since the original is crap, and it collects to a 2.5 inch pipe. He also put on a 2.25 inch stainless catback. He already had a 2.5 inch high flow cat.
His car is now 0.6 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than last year, which indicates about a 20 HP gain. Not bad for headers and catback!
 

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Black Dawg said:
I'm going to be doing new exhaust in the fall, and I'm trying to get it all planned out ahead of time so when I get back from work, I can go on a spending spree.

Basically, I know the Thorley is better than the Pacesetter, but is it worth the extra $100 or so? I also realize that I will have to have the O2 sensor relocated, this is not a big deal. Thanks for your input.

The plan is a 2.5", free-flow cat, and a flowmaster, although I'm not sure which one will sound the best. Any input on this would also be appreciated.
I've been asking some question to the manufactor/distributors about the pacesetters and thorleys. According to thorleyheader.com, the thorley is a 1 1/5 pipe off the manifold goes to a 2 inch step up, then to a 2.5 collector. I found stats online that list the Pacesetter as 1 1/2 off the manifold, then to a 2.5 collector.

For my uses and theory, I'll be going with the Thorley, here's why;

In 1984 I built an exhaust for a big v-8. My goal in that car was better gas mileage. I used a 1 5/8 header and a 2 1/2 collector. I was going to go down to a 2 1/4 collector, but was advised not to by the speed shop I was dealing with. They suggested I keep the same size piping even though I was trying to get better gas mileage. They stated that the power or torque was made with the header and the piping didn't play that much of a role in it. The reason I used the 1 5/8 header was an article I read in Popular Hot Rod in 1979/80. In the article they stated that the smaller the header the better the gas mileage, the bigger the header the better the horse power. This car became amazing, the gas mileage jumped from 18mpg to 23mpg. It would turn 14.2 average in a quarter with 3.23 rear gears. In germany it was clocked at 189 mph. (downhill with a tail wind). So not only did I gain the gas mileage, but also speed I did not expect. Of course remember this was a big V8.. But following the same theory, the 1 1/5 header seems about the right size to raise the gas mileage (torque) and help the low end power.

In a different thread on this forum we are discussing the muffler piping, and it's interested that everyone seems to think that the bigger pipiing is better. But the header that more people like is the Thorley, the one with the smaller piping off the manifold. Yes, I would definitly go with the Thorley.

Question to have answered still...

1. What is the original muffler piping size for the MKII.....
 

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Magnus,

I have 2 Pacesetter headers here... Both have 3 primaries collecting into 2 inch pipes, then those two 2 inch pipes collect into a single 2 inch pipe. I've heard someone else say that they got a Pacesetter that collected into a 2.25 inch pipe at the end.... Maybe they changed over the years?? I throw away the final 2 into 1 collector and replace with a daul 2 inch into single 2.5 inch collector for better flow. Then go to 2.5 inch cat and 2.5 inch catback exhaust.
My new 82 Supra race car has unknown brand headers (maybe Thorleys?) that collect into a 2.5 inch pipe. Much better than Pacesetter.

Stock 82-84 Supras in North America were 1 and 3/4 inch exhaust piping from my experience. Others say that some came with 1 and 7/8 inch.
Stock 85-86 Supras in North America were 2 inch exhaust piping.

All sizes are stated as OD (outside diameter) which seems to be the standard in the exhaust business.
 

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If the pacesetter for the MA60 is anything like on the one for my AE86 I would seriously spend the extra money on the thorely. Its hangs way to low under the car. here is a pic of the header in relation to the frame rail.



here is a pic of my car


its been raised up some since this pic was taken, but my header has a major flat spot on the bottom now. Its also cracked twice since I've had the car (it came on the car when I got it 2 yrs ago)
 

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82Ltype said:
:?: Whats a vortex tube and resonator? Never heard of that before. Brian
A resonator is a capsule shaped device about 4" diameter and anywhere from 12" to 24" long with an 2.25" to 3" pathway for the exhaust gas to pass through the center. There is typically a perforated pipe down the center and it is packed with either fiberglass (glass-pack) or stainless steel wool between the inner perforated wall and outer solid capsule shell. It is intended to absorb some of the exhaust pulse waves.

A vortex tube is similarly sized and shaped but contains no packing material. Instead, down the center of the tube is a small unobstructed pipe perhaps 1.5" diameter surrounded by a spiral passageway that introduces a rotational motion to part of the exhaust gas. It is intended to break up some of the exhaust pulse waves.

I'm sure there's a better explaination in some physics book somewhere, but suffice it to say that both are miminally restrictive exhaust sound deadening devices typically used together with a regular muffler but sometimes used by themselves.

Phil D.
 

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Eight-Six said:
here is a pic of my car
Hmmm, and for some reason, I thought your car was yellow :)
 

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That's a cool looking car. From that side seeing the rear end and with the wheels it looks like a cartoony manga supra, lol.
 
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