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Discussion Starter #21
I got a little done over the past weekend. I power washed the engine bay and started to sand everything. My buddy Chris came over and welded some holes up and fix a few issues. One of the things I need to figure out is how to bolt things down without using self tapping screws. I try to use existing threaded holes where possible. But sometimes I want to bolt something in an area where that's not an option or the option of a bolt and nut combo. I know from the factory there's a little bit of metal built up where they tapped for threads. Wish i could duplicate that in some spots or figure out another solution. All I know is I really don't want use self tapping screws. They suck and are one time use.

After power washing. Shiny steering rack there!






https://cdi0ka.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y4m19cql8uKoafashvpjhVFTlMLmKJpBktBM6ZetouHg99toLT6oLV_R_YcRPuRubJ3jAF4d58iAjLQP1yHCV5t9J6oH6lWBtedtKqawN2W93W8mqhmfn1P_ceVFmqMxZo5lMf1ujlydW5UFZ-DiNzVxpnJtEgM4N1mkNQvsOBHRgbdfFTEZoR2C8j1YN2ZkHhfIAVN4kct4I5JYVSbep3kfw?width=576&height=1024&cropmode=none


I am pretty happy with how well the battery hold down area turned out. I was able to strip everything down and get rid of the rust.



I'm pretty sure battery acid leaked down on the cross member and ate through the metal which then rusted. I cleaned this up too.

 

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Discussion Starter #22
Also, two of the front bumper bolts are rusted pretty bad. I am pretty sure these came from the driver's side. Somehow water got in there. Any ideas on how to restore easily and cheaply? I read this thread here about a plating kit but it looks expensive to get started. If i go down that rode, I'll end up restoring every single bolt and part. Not sure I want to go that far....yet I may just buy a couple long bolts from home depot and use an over-sized washer to mimic the oblong design so that it will catch onto the frame rail when tightening the nut on the bottom.



Here's the bolt hole

 

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You could always weld in captive nuts where you want them, provided access for welding them is isn't as much of a problem as getting at the nuts would be too. There's also "RivNuts", sort of a combination of a rivet and a nut that can be used. They're not that expensive and if you are only going to use one size, there's relatively inexpensive tools to install them. A universal tool for them isn't cheap but would certainly be a much better option than a bunch of totally manual tools if you were going to install more than one size. It would also be much easier to use than the cheap manual tools are.
If you decide to go with RivNuts, be aware that you'll need to do a little research to make sure to get the right style, material and length for your intended use, just like with rivets. I've used these a couple of times to install captive nuts where access to the area where the nuts had to be sucked and welding nuts in wouldn't have been easy either. Hope this helps.
 

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A quick look at Fastenal's site shows that they use the term "Nutserts" instead, probably because they're not manufactured by the company that has the copywrite on Threadsert. Functionally, they're likely identical. But nutsert gives me a strange, queasy feeling that I just don't like. I'm not sure what that name might infer beyond the fact that it is exactly what they are in a slightly more generic sense. But whatever it is, I really don't want to know. It just ain't right!
 

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One of the things I need to figure out is how to bolt things down without using self tapping screws. I try to use existing threaded holes where possible. But sometimes I want to bolt something in an area where that's not an option or the option of a bolt and nut combo. I know from the factory there's a little bit of metal built up where they tapped for threads. Wish i could duplicate that in some spots or figure out another solution. All I know is I really don't want use self tapping screws. They suck and are one time use.
Agreed. The rivnuts and their ilk are a nice concept, but I question the long term rust implications. Even an aluminum riv nut will still scratch the inside of the panel when it presses on. Its ok if you have access to the back side to seal it up afterwards, but thats not always an option and mixing up metal types can often cause corrosion issues too.

I'm a factory weeney myself. If I can't use an existing bolt hole with welded on nut, I make one. I keep a pack of new 10mm metric steel nuts around. Drill the hole for bolt, then shave off the plating on the new nut where its going to mate to the body and where I want to weld, then 3 to 4 little mig tack welds on the nut with a throw away bolt in there holding it all in place (the bolt always gets its plating burned off during welding). Often you have to run a tap through afterwards, but it works well. Coat it all in primer, then seam sealer then enamel on the back side at least when you're done.
 

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You got the surface rust pretty good, but leaking battery acid causes untold hell inside all of these panels in this area. That said, I can tell from that photo that your car has indeed come out of it way better then most. I'm not seeing anything right there in that particular pic that likely requires opening up further to fix. However, your sealer is super compromised. The factor sealer that used to seal the rail from the unibody wheel well panel is gone in the area of where the battery mount used to be, and same on the front between the apron panel. Test your sealer around there, if its hard and crumbles, replace it all. The factory did not use enough sealer on these areas so its very easy for battery acid to get in there and wreck havoc. I don't know if you have found canadian_pscho's (spelling) LType restoration thread (which is mostly me posting about the resto work done to his car), but there is a chapter in there about doing repairs to this area.

Now looking at that photo of where your rusty bolts came from, it does look like the lower rad support sheet metal that is spot welded to the frame rail has rust under it. You can peel that piece back and fix the rust under it without removing the whole thing quite often. As for the shaft the bolt goes in, that sucks. Often when its that rusty there, the rest of the inside of the rail is just as bad, and fixing any rust on the outside is only an interm solution (it always comes back). I end up clipping the entire rail off so that I can treat the rust inside properly (see that article). HOWEVER, like I said, I don't think yours is bad enough to warrant it and it looks like in this case that water or acid got trapped in the bolt shaft from above, not from inside. I have a really stiff stainless steel bottle brush that fits in that hole and is good at getting the loose rust off. I would go to town on it with one of those, blow the loose stuff off with compressed air, then dump some rust converter down there until all the remaining rust is black. Then primer and paint, after you deal with the rust on the top of the rail of course. As for the bolts, my favourite thing to do with those is to replace them with ones off other cars. Or course supply is a big problem all over now. If there are none at the local boneyards in your neck of the woods, I would probably just sandblast your existing bolts as they don't quite look like they have weakened yet. Clean the threads really good too. Ideally replate them. If you can't bring yourself to do that, rust convertor, primer, paint and then assemble coating your threads with lots of anti seeze as you'll peel the paint off them during installation.
 

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The Caswell plating kit is awesome and the materials not that expensive. Its surprisingly easy to reproduce that yellow di-chromate that's all over the Supra. The expensive part was purchasing a 25 amp DC constant current power supply. You could take all your fasteners, brackets, etc to be professionally plated very cheap, but they typically charge one price for a "batch" so its gonna be like $100 for one bolt or a 5 gallon bucket of bolts. The difficulty would be cataloging them so that you can sort them back out from the batch and get them installed back in the right holes.

I got the DIY kit because as I take a car apart, I bag and label everything as to where it goes back, sometimes even drawing a little diagram on the bag if for example the bolts are different lengths. By doing it myself a few at a time, I can keep them sorted and put them back in the correctly labeled bags. After all, it might be years before I put the car back together. You've got to have a lot of patience though to DIY. You have to bead blast, wire wheel and degrease every fastener, carefully set up a bunch of small plating batches, estimating the total surface area and calculating the amps, each batch then running 15 to 20 minutes, then hang them out to dry. But in any restoration, its those little details that set it apart from the typical amateur job.

If you are not concerned about originality, Black Oxide finish is the easiest and cheapest because all you need is a bucket. Just dip the cleaned and degreased fasteners in the 70 -80 degree solution for 20-30 seconds and watch it turn black. Then rinse, shake it off and soak it in a penetrating oil like WD-40 or Gibbs. Zinc Phosphate gives a light gray coating with a little zinc for sacrificial protection and is only a little more difficult in that the solution has to be 170-190 degrees and takes a few minutes instead of seconds. But believe it or not, for just a few bolts at a time, I just zap them in the microwave in a pyrex cup. Manganese Phosphate is the same process but is a darker grey, almost as dark as black oxide and I think its supposed to be the best protection of the three.
 

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I found an old post about the caswell kit, looks sweet but good lordy big initial investment at $200 plus a DC supply.
http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?45959-Yellow-Zinc-Chromate-Factory-Finish-Question
http://www.caswellplating.com/catalogsearch/result/?f=+kits+zinc+htm&q=kits+zinc

Black oxide kit is much more reasonable at $70 though. http://www.caswellplating.com/metal-finishing-solutions/black-oxide-kits/black-oxide-kit-1-25-gal.html

Zinc Phosphate seems to be called parkerizing in the gun community and is hit or miss, can't find anything anyone recs for car use. Manganese Phosphate seems to have about the same reviews, but i'm no expert so if you've got insights i'm all ears. Coating bolts is relevant to my interests :D
 

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Zinc Phosphate seems to be called parkerizing in the gun community and is hit or miss, can't find anything anyone recs for car use. Manganese Phosphate seems to have about the same reviews, but i'm no expert so if you've got insights i'm all ears. Coating bolts is relevant to my interests :D
I'm not a chemist, but I've had a few items that just wouldn't take a finish hardly at all and I had to cook them for a loooong time. But my guess is it has to do with the alloy content of the steel and the size of the part. Grade 8 bolts don't take the finish as easily as mild steel parts and also I noticed that larger parts take a lot longer than smaller parts, perhaps because they soak up a lot of the heat energy, I don't know. But I wouldn't read too much on the gunsmithing sites. The gunsmith hobbyists are looking for a perfect uniform finish to look good in a display cabinet. That level of perfection is not necessary for automotive nuts and bolts.
 

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Speak for yourself :naughty:

Thats pretty cool. I am definitely all for DIY methods, but I'm not sure this one is worth my time. I've had many batches of bolts and fuel bits plated over the years, its always been pretty reasonable on the pocket I've found. Of course I pre-glass beaded and prepped everything myself. I also am really fond of black nickel, I'm guessing that one is trickier to pull off. My local plater doesn't even do it himself, he farms it out to another company in Van.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
You got the surface rust pretty good, but leaking battery acid causes untold hell inside all of these panels in this area. That said, I can tell from that photo that your car has indeed come out of it way better then most. I'm not seeing anything right there in that particular pic that likely requires opening up further to fix. However, your sealer is super compromised. The factor sealer that used to seal the rail from the unibody wheel well panel is gone in the area of where the battery mount used to be, and same on the front between the apron panel. Test your sealer around there, if its hard and crumbles, replace it all. The factory did not use enough sealer on these areas so its very easy for battery acid to get in there and wreck havoc. I don't know if you have found canadian_pscho's (spelling) LType restoration thread (which is mostly me posting about the resto work done to his car), but there is a chapter in there about doing repairs to this area.

Now looking at that photo of where your rusty bolts came from, it does look like the lower rad support sheet metal that is spot welded to the frame rail has rust under it. You can peel that piece back and fix the rust under it without removing the whole thing quite often. As for the shaft the bolt goes in, that sucks. Often when its that rusty there, the rest of the inside of the rail is just as bad, and fixing any rust on the outside is only an interm solution (it always comes back). I end up clipping the entire rail off so that I can treat the rust inside properly (see that article). HOWEVER, like I said, I don't think yours is bad enough to warrant it and it looks like in this case that water or acid got trapped in the bolt shaft from above, not from inside. I have a really stiff stainless steel bottle brush that fits in that hole and is good at getting the loose rust off. I would go to town on it with one of those, blow the loose stuff off with compressed air, then dump some rust converter down there until all the remaining rust is black. Then primer and paint, after you deal with the rust on the top of the rail of course. As for the bolts, my favourite thing to do with those is to replace them with ones off other cars. Or course supply is a big problem all over now. If there are none at the local boneyards in your neck of the woods, I would probably just sandblast your existing bolts as they don't quite look like they have weakened yet. Clean the threads really good too. Ideally replate them. If you can't bring yourself to do that, rust convertor, primer, paint and then assemble coating your threads with lots of anti seeze as you'll peel the paint off them during installation.
I see what you mean now by the sealer being gone. Gamble came by on Saturday and checked everything out. He agreed that a lot of the sealer needs to be replaced all around the engine bay. And there are several places where the factory sealant was just sloppy and looks like crap. And other cases where it's gone completely. I'm just going to replace it all. I know it's a lot of work but it'll be worth it in the end. I need to find out the best techniques to remove and apply new sealer. And the products to use. All this stuff is new to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
This past weekend, I decided to take things one step further and remove the entire front cross member. I wasn't that far from doing this and it'll make cleaning up the engine bay and painting a lot easier. It was quite fun doing this by myself. I ended up supporting the cross member with my floor jack placed in the middle. Unbolted everything and then sort of let the cross member slide down onto the jack and then rolled it out from underneath the car. Pretty easy actually. I left the strut assemblies in place and the sway bar links and everything attached. I will probably end up disassembling the strut assembly and steering rack so that I can repaint the cross member itself.



 

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Discussion Starter #34
I banged up a couple of the cross member bolts. My dumb ass decided to take an impact wrench on the top of the bolt and bent the bracket thing. So i had to bang it back out to straighten it. I probably could have been a bit more graceful. And maybe the bottom nut would have loosened with the top bracket bent. Oh well. I think i can grind down the marks and smooth it out.

 

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Discussion Starter #35
Couple more pics. You can see a few areas where the sealer is sloppy. On the shock tower id like to fill in those dimples caused by spot welding with body filler. Thanks Gamble for suggestion.


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Discussion Starter #37
Man i was just there a few days ago and you've done so much already. Nice job.
Thanks dude. You gave me good suggestions and inspiration. I haven't really done much on the prepping and fixing things in the engine bay. I'm really good at taking stuff apart. The hard part is actually doing the restorative work, prepping and painting.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I removed most of the old seam sealant. I don't know if this is normal, but the factory sealant was pretty sloppy and brush marks all over. Many areas were simply over done and seems like there was more than necessary. My plan is to cut and scrap it all out and redo it with a nice bead of sealant. I bought gray sealant instead of the factory beige color. I just like the gray look better even though I will paint over it.

I was discussing next steps with my buddy Chris and was planning to paint the engine bay right away. But more we thought about it the more it made sense to mock up where all the engine components will be mounted. I want to tuck and hide as much as possible but there will inevitably be something I want to bolt on and no factory hole will be in that spot. And I may need to weld a nut or something and don't want to ruin the nice new paint. So really need to figure out where everything will be mounted, how things will be routed before painting. Need to make a list of those items that must be mounted in the engine bay and those I can move somewhere else.






T










 

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What you've just realized, about having to do many things twice so you only have to do the most important and / or most costly once is in fact the most efficient method of doing virtually everything out here in the real world. I try to put 80% of my effort into figuring out the best, cheapest, fastest, whatever way to do things and then 20% into actually doing it. But the reality is that there's certain things that can't be thought through completely in virtual reality and will only become known when you actually do something. That's what separates us knowers from the internet believers that only imagine they're experienced experts on anything. Knowing something requires actual experience / participation in the real world. Believing only requires blind trust in someone / something else. This conveniently also makes everything someone else's fault should the particular belief not fit reality....
 

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What you've just realized, about having to do many things twice so you only have to do the most important and / or most costly once is in fact the most efficient method of doing virtually everything out here in the real world. I try to put 80% of my effort into figuring out the best, cheapest, fastest, whatever way to do things and then 20% into actually doing it. But the reality is that there's certain things that can't be thought through completely in virtual reality and will only become known when you actually do something. That's what separates us knowers from the internet believers that only imagine they're experienced experts on anything. Knowing something requires actual experience / participation in the real world. Believing only requires blind trust in someone / something else. This conveniently also makes everything someone else's fault should the particular belief not fit reality....
That's some deep good wisdom right there. I don't have unlimited funds or time so what you just laid out is absolutely correct. Planning is definitely more time consuming but well worth it in the long run. Someone told me that you can accomplish anything as long as you have a good plan.

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